Howitt: Early Elections Are Up To Macedonia

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By Sinisa Jakov Marusic

The deal that ended Macedonia’s political crisis foresees possible early elections – but only if the parties agree on it by autumn, the European Parliament Rapporteur on Macedonia, said.

Richard Howitt told Balkan Insight that early general elections are up to parliament – after government and opposition came out with contradictory readings of the deal brokered on Friday.

The MEP said the parties were obliged to discuss the issue “in good faith”, and that “all outcomes of the talks are open and up to the two sides to agree”.

The parties have time to agree on this until early September, Howitt said, so that their decision could be taken into account in the European Commission’s annual progress report, which is to be released later in autumn.

“The problems must be resolved within the country so that the country can demonstrate its democratic capacity. The EU can only support the process,” Howitt said.

Ahead of talks with EU representatives last Friday, Macedonia’s opposition Social Democrats agreed to end their parliamentary boycott and take part in local elections set for March 24.

But, after the agreement was announced, Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski told a rally of his VMRO DPMNE party that early general elections had not been agreed.

The head of the Social Democrats, Branko Crvenkovski, at the weekend claimed the opposite, saying that “there will be early elections”, and they would probably happen in autumn.

Another pressing issue envisaged in the deal is the formation of a commission of inquiry into the incidents in parliament on December 24, that triggered the political crisis.

The commission of five members will be chaired by a person nominated by President Gjorge Ivanov, while the opposition will nominate two members, the ruling VMRO DPMNE party one, and one other will be an international expert. It will adopt decisions by consensus.

“There have been discussions on including one or two international experts who will be observer members only”, without the right to vote, Howitt noted.

On Tuesday, President Ivanov said that the commission should be operational within two weeks.

It will have two months to submit a report to the President. The findings will also inform an important European Commission report on Macedonia due next spring.

The Social Democrats and VMRO DPMNE have not said whom they plan to propose for the commission and who might be its head.

The Social Democrats launched their boycott of parliament on December 24 after the government parties passed a budget for 2013 in just a few minutes, after opposition MPs and journalists were expelled from the chamber.

The crisis threatened to derail Macedonia’s EU agenda, as the EU Council has said that any decision on opening accession talks for Macedonia will be based on the next report from the European Commission.

This will assess whether Macedonia has taken real steps towards reaching a deal with Greece over its name, to which Athens objects, whether it has improved relations with Bulgaria and has carried out reforms at home.

Balkan Insight

The Balkan Insight (forner the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network, BIRN) is a close group of editors and trainers that enables journalists in the region to produce in-depth analytical and investigative journalism on complex political, economic and social themes.

BIRN emerged from the Balkan programme of the Institute for War & Peace Reporting, IWPR, in 2005. The original IWPR Balkans team was mandated to localise that programme and make it sustainable, in light of changing realities in the region and the maturity of the IWPR intervention.

Since then, its work in publishing, media training and public debate activities has become synonymous with quality, reliability and impartiality. A fully-independent and local network, it is now developing as an efficient and self-sustainable regional institution to enhance the capacity for journalism that pushes for public debate on European-oriented political and economic reform.

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22 thoughts on “Howitt: Early Elections Are Up To Macedonia”

  1. This country should not be called macedonia and it’s citizens are not ethnic macedonians. In a shocking statement of guilt,FYROM’s (a country known as Vardaska prior to 1944)first Foreign Affairs Minister admits that the communist regime invented the ethnicity and fabricated it’s history:

    Denko Malevski(1st minister of foreign affairs in FYROM):

    The creation of the “Macedonian” nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. In those years, we lost our capability for strategic dialog. With Greeks? No, with ourselves. Since then, namely, we reach towards some fictional ethnic purity which we seek in the depths of the history & we are angry at those which dare to call us Slavs & our language & culture Slavic? We are angry when they name us what we are if we have to define ourselves in such categories, showing that we are ppl full with complexes which are ashamed of ourselves.
    The idea that Alexander the Great belong to FYROM,was at the mind of some outsider political groups only!!These groups were insignificant the first years of our independence..the big problem is that the old Balkan Nations have been learned to legitimate themselves through their history. In Balkans,if you want to be recognised as a Nation,you need to have history of 3000 years old.Since Greeks made us to INVENT a history..we did invent it…

  2. Akron,I don’t understand your passion for Macedonia.As a Greek yourself,you should take a look at Greeces situation instead of Macedonia.Things you should be concerned are;over 30% of Greeces population is unemployed,55% of the youths have no jobs,suicide rate has sky rocketed,families cannot afford to get together for dinner because they cannot afford to buy food.
    On the political issue a Greek commentator puts it this way,”Who cheers for their football team?Who jeers at the phony Papandreou,the porky face of Venizelos,the blood sucking Stournaras and Samaras…Politicians smell like the putrid fish that even a starving cat wouldn’t touch.”
    This is your country my friend.I suggest you find something nice about Greece to write,Macedonia is doing fine,thank you.
    Here are few things that Macedonia does that Greece cannot match;The Macedonian budget for 2013 has increased pensions,free transportation,free hospital stay,reduction of medicine prices for seniors.There are furthere improvements for seniors,pension increases to follow in 2014 and 2015.The Macedonian government is helping farmers and people affected with the natural catastrophe,students are given stipendia,also they are encouraged to open up their own businesses with government grants at a low interest,buy a house buy a condo with 50% government subsidies.Building low income housing for the less fortunate.This is a government and society that cares for its people.
    Tell your readers what Greece is doing for their citizens.Better still,tell us,what has happened to the money Greece has borrowed from the creditors.How much money were stolen.How much did former defense Minister stole,the mayor of Salonika,the 130 million that Samaras stashed in black garbage bags for propaganda against Macedonia and Macedonian minority in Greece.Your continued shameless rhetoric about Macedonia is to cover Greeces fabrications since 1913.
    You must get it through your little head,Macedonia and Macedonians are not Greek nor Greece.Alexander the Great was Macedonian not Greek by any imagination of yours.City states were enslaved by the Macedonians in 338 BC.We are Macedonians who speak the Slavic language as do many other nations.
    Macedonia was created in the Ancient World as a nation,not city states as the Hellens.Even City States stopped to exist in 338 BC up till 1829.This is the time the Austrian Prince Otto wrote history that did not even reflected the mixture of the present day population.It was done to glorify himself as the first king of Greece,and you bought his history that has no roots to Ancient City States.Republic of Macedonia won its independence in 1944 from Serbia,and Nazi occupation and in 1991 its full independence from Yugoslavia.Aegean and Pirin Macedonia are still under foreign occupation since 1913.Don’t you ever forget,Macedonia never belonged to Greece.

  3. I’m a true macedonian and I honour Alexanders true Greek ethnicity. You pervert and invent history. We’ve had debates about the history, but you keep repeating the fabrications and never offer any proof about your claims. Why are you bringing up Greece’s economic troubles? Greece’s economy doesn’t validate your invented history. Are you aware the Slavo Skopje is in a vastly worse condition? Greece is a developed country while yours has been and remains thirs world. There is no comparison between the two.

    Regardless…Denko Malevskis statementtells me all I need to know about you.

    1. There are no ancient Macedonians living in the modern world; there are however people across the world from The United States to Australia, from Skopje to Athens who still feel they have a link to this extinct civilization. You might disagree with this assertion, but that is their base human right of self determination. There are Ancient Macedonian sites in both The Macedonian and Hellenic Republic; from the towns of Styberra (Prilep) and Heraclea Lyncestis (Bitola) in Macedonia to Pella in Greece all have an ancient and shared history. However does this mean that only those with this perceived undiluted link back to the ancient world can call themselves Macedonian? Of course not, thousands of years and many historical, religious, ethnic and cultural groups have contributed to what it means to be a Macedonian in a modern world. I am English, a Briton, living and working in the UK and yet by the strange paradigm expressed in your post because I don’t speak the language of or trace my roots back to The Beaker people or Celts of ancient Britain I can not express my modern cultural, ethnic, or national identity. My human right of self determination is seemingly negated by your very specific narrow minded view of what determines identity.
      Nationalists across all borders of the Macedonian situation do a disservice to those they claim to represent by trying to monopolize all for their paradigm of what it means to be ‘Macedonian’. Unfortunately questions of identity, borders & statehood are far more complicated than just brief individual periods of history. This is perhaps what Denko Malevski relates to when he wrote in the Macedonian newspaper Utrinski Vesnik 16/10/06 ‘Maybe the British historians are right when they say that in history one can find confirmation for every modern thesis, so, we could say, also for the one that we are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. The trouble is that this thesis leads us into direct clash with the most powerful nationalism in Europe, and perhaps in the World-the Greek one.’
      Respect UK.

      1. All I’m saying is that the ancient Macedonians identified themsleves as Greeks, and based on every discernable characteristic of ethnicity (ie language, cutlure,religion, shared land) were Greeks. FYROM’s macedonian ethnicity is a communist era construct, that is being used today in a dangerous and nationalistic way. As far as Denko Malevski is concerned, he is clearly explaining how the ethnicity was completely invented by distorting history and for political purposes. If you are truly a Briton, take
        The opportunity to visit the British Museum and educate yourself.
        Watch video:
        rtsp://v1.cache8.c.youtube.com/CjMLENy73wIaKgmjROrZ5l6EmBMYJCAkFEIGbXYtcmltSARSBXdhdGNoYLr7zYbi0LGbTww=/0/0/0/video.3gp

      2. A couple more points. Greeks have a right to claim the legacy and history of the Greeks who came before them. This whole notion that there are no ancient macedonians is ridiculous. There are no ancient Britons or Chinese, but the cultures still exist today and can identify with those that came before them.

        The human right of self determination doesn’t translate into a human right for identity theft. Recognition of identity requires two parties, one that makes the claim and another that accepts it. Skopje’s attempt to usurp the macedonian name (the area was known as Vardaska priÓr to 1944) and identity and fabricate the history of the region is being done for nationalistic and political reasons, and Greece has every right to object. Bulgaria also has the right to to object to the racist hatred being directed toward it by the Gruevski regime, and hiding behind some sort of claim to self determination is not a defence

        1. I’ve no problem with your identification with a long dead ancient civilization. Thats one of your base human rights. My belief is that if one defines a region, history, culture, people, religion and identity by such a brief period of history (such as the 32 years of Alexander The Great’s life), you do a disservice to those you claim to represent. The monopolization of ancient history by anyone from any region or state to deny an individual or group their identity is just wrong.
          If I took your limited discourse and narrow paradigm to its natural ends, I would find myself agreeing with the likes of the British National Party or other far right movements within Europe. The BNP for one don’t believe you can call yourself British unless you can trace your roots back to the time off the ice age ( http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/britain-nation-immigrants ). What are you actually claiming: you can only call yourself a Macedonian if you can trace your heritage back to 330 years BC? How do you intend to police the identity of those that would call themselves Macedonian (from all regions), a history test? some sort of perverse check list? or maybe you’d like something more sinister such as DNA screening? Where would you place the limit of being Macedonian? Is it a geographical decider or maybe you’d like to put a date on it. In which case how do you see those who come from the towns of Styberra (Prilep) and Heraclea Lyncestis (Bitola) in The Republic Of Macedonia (Both towns within the area of The Ancient Kingdom Of Macedon)? I’m very interested in how would you decide wether I was a Briton/British or not? You don’t know my race, name, religion, cultural heritage, gender, birthplace, and yet I suspect through your very definite ideas on identity you would be very happy deciding what I am, whether I liked it or not.
          I’ve been to the British Museum many times (I work near by its a privilege to take your lunch hour there! Thank you for your link but it doesn’t work) I take an avid interest in history both ancient and modern, I have learnt of the feuding City states of the ancient Hellenic world, how the ancient Greek languages were spoken by many across continents and time, how much philosophy, and modern concept and theory comes from that period of history. Nothing in the British Museum negates the fact that there is a modern European state called Macedonia, with modern borders where after many struggles there are those who identify themselves as Macedonians. Nothing in The British Museum negates the fact that there are those such as yourself that feel an undiluted link back to over 2000 years ago. Nothing in The British Museum negates the fact there is a modern state The Hellenic Republic or Greece declared January 1st 1822 with modern borders that 91 years later eventually included part of the region known as Macedonia. I don’t think the links between modern identity and the ancient world is as simple as you would believe. I have seen that the region, and identity of Macedonia has been very fluid, in Roman times for instance the region of Macedonia extended far further north than I expect you’d be comfortable with. I have seen the the ebb and flow of Macedonia as region, concept, identity and yes state. The Macedonian language, region, country, people, ethnicity, and culture (across many borders and identities) is about far more than the brief history of a self proclaimed god and despot from over two thousand years ago. There wasn’t a cut off point for Macedonian history with the death of Alexander The Great. As with all the peoples of Europe from two thousand years ago The Macedonians evolved; assimilation, annexation, liberation, and migration have all had a profound effect on what makes up a state; religion, region, culture, language, and ethnic identity. The entire world is and always has been in a state of constant flux; whether it be the movement of people, language or ideas, definitions of all have changed throughout time. I am willing to accept that there used to be an ancient kingdom called ‘Macedonia’ or ‘Macedon’, and there is a modern European state called ‘Macedonia’ where they speak ‘Macedonian’ (amongst other languages). The fact that the language, culture, and the ethnic make up of ancient Macedonia and modern Macedonians across all borders has changed shouldn’t surprise anyone at all.
          In the same way that The Hellenic Republic didn’t magically appear on January 1st 1822, The Republic Of Macedonia has also had a long road to self determination and independence. Constant reference to 1944 and the proclaimed People’s Republic of Macedonia ignores all those who strove for and in many cases died for the right to their identity and recognition. For example what of the complex history of the Ilinden Uprising and resulting Krushevo Republic of 1903 (a decade before Greece gained a region called Macedonia)? A rebellion led by the Internal Macedonian-Adrianopolitan Revolutionary Organization with its motto of “Macedonia for the Macedonians”. This expression of national identity amongst others is often ignored by those who would simplify the complex history, culture and identity of a vast region and peoples.
          You sate ‘Recognition of identity requires two parties, one that makes the claim and another that accepts it’ I couldn’t agree more. Over 130 countries world wide recognize The state of Macedonia, the language, and the people. The fact that there is a region of Greece called Macedonia doesn’t seem to confuse them.
          Whilst I am in no way a supporter of Gruevski and the financial folly of the present Macedonian government’s monument building, (infrastructure projects are far more important), I’m not sure what this ‘racist hatred’ is you claim is being directed towards Bulgaria? Please let me know, I am very interested to know. Respect UK.

  4. Oh ya…and the demotic Egyptian language on the Rosetta Stone is just that…demotic Egyptian. Not some fabricated “macedonian” language that proves Alexander spoke your language. The third script on the Rosetta Stone is Greek, and the language Alexander spoke and still speak today. Now stop trying to steal Egyptian history too…you people are embarassing yoursleves…or as Denko Malevski would say:”a people who are ashamed of themselves”

  5. One more thing…how do you feel that the Ottoman Empire, renowned the world over for its acurate cencus taking and administration, never once mentions a macedonian ethnicity? It mentions every ethnic group in the empire except yours. How do you justify that in your invented history?

  6. Akron,you are deficient in your head.
    Here is why Alexander was not Greek;
    Demosthenes,the great Athenian statesman and orator,spoke of Macedonian king Philip II as:”…not only no Greek,nor related to the Greeks,but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honours,but a pestilent knave from Macedonia,whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave.”(Third Philippic,31)
    Under the Romans,the Greeks continued to prosper in the Levant,Asia Minor,and Egypt,less so in Greece and not at all in Macedonia.While the Romans did not establish any province by the name of Greece or Hellas,there were two Macedonias in their Empire:Macedonia Prima,known today as the Aegean Macedonia,and Macedonia Salutaris,known today as the Vardar and Pirin Macedonias.The twoMacedonian provinces formed the Diocese of Macedonia,to which the Romans attached all of modern Greece and Albania.Latin was the official language in Roman Macedonia from 168 BC until the demise of Roman rule at the end of the sixth Christian century.
    Here is another proof that Alexander was not Greek:
    The question of the use of the Macedonian language was raised by Alexander himself during the trial of Philotas,one of his generals accused of treason.Alexander said to Philotas:”The Macedonians are about to pass judgement upon you;I wish to know whether you will use their native tongue in addressing them.”Thereupon Philotas replied:”Besides the Macedonians there are many present who,I think,will more easily understand what I shall say if I use the same language which you have employed,for no other reason,I suppose, than in order that your speech might be understood by the greater number.”Then said the king:”Do you not see how Philotas loathes even the language of his fatherland?For he alone disdains to learn it.But let him by all means speak in whatever way he desires,provided that you remember that he holds our customs in as much abhorrence as our language.”(Quintus Curtius Rufus,History of Alexander the Great of Macedon,VI.ix.34-36).The trial of Philotas took place in Asia before a multi-ethnic public.
    Alexander claimed of Zeus being his father,but he also claimed the Egyptian Ammon to be his heavenly parent.
    You can fabricate the historical truth,but the lies are biting your ass today.
    I did compare Greece with Macedonia just to highlight the real truth,facts are more important than your lies.Today,even strangers don’t believe Greek thesis.My previous comment hits the nail on the head my friend,you can’t have it your way as you have done for so many years of fabrications.
    What is interesting nis,the fact that history written in Ancient times by Hellens,you are discarding it,yet it was written right at the time was taking place.It is unfortunate that you have perfected fabrications so good,it is hard for the foreign media to change it as it should be,too many false history has been manipulated by Greece,and foreigners bought it without ever setting a foot in the area.As Dr.Thomas Arnold ,the founder of the school Ethos in 19th century in England,suggested that “fabricating Greek Legents will profoundly improve the English image,even more than the Greek image”.
    On the Ottoman sencus,well,Greece used exact sencus on 19th December 1920.I have an article written by a Greek who came across a page from that sencus,the author is Dimitris Lithozou,the tittle is”The Macedonian Language On The Sencus of citizens of 1920″
    “Oi Makedonikoi glossa stin apographoi plithismou tou 1920″.Read it and understand it,its written in Greek,you should have no problem understanding it.

  7. 1) Demosthenes used the same term ‘barbarian’ when describing the Spartans.he meant it as an insult. The whole of Greece,regarde Macedonians as Greeks, and included them in the Greek only Olympic games.

    2) As for the language, there were different Greek dialects across the country. The macedonian dialect was dorian, similar to the Spartan. Alexander created the Koine Greek, meaning common Greek,so that all soldiers spoke without distintion. It’s the same Greek found in the the Bible, and on the Rosetta Stone.your language is a Bulgarian Dilalect…not demotic Egyptian.
    3)As for Rome, the slavs didn’t move into the area until after the fall of the Empire. Your people were not there. Nevertheless, your country holds about 10 percent of ancient Macedonia. That doesn’t make you ethnic Macedonians. Just slavs who populated that area.
    4)So still no evidence of your “macedonian” ethnicity during the Ottoman era? How come? How could it be? Why were you the only ethic group left out?I will give you a hint. You didn’t exist until Tito brainwashed your gradfathers and converted them from Bulgarian to so called Macedonians.

    1. Akron,I wish you make up your mind on one very importent issue.Former education minister of Greece Babiniotis said”the ancient Macedonian language was a Greek dialect”.You on the other hand are claiming it is Bulgarian.Can a Greek ever come out and tell the truth from a historical perspective on anything?.
      No wonder,you Greeks are classified as John Adams said it in 1783.
      Akron,an English TV game channel,the couple was asked”what nationality was Alexander the Great?”their answer was”Greek”,they lost the price.This was on national TV.
      Another Greek who answered my comment said”The Macedonians of Aegean Macedonia are the only true Ancient Macedonians,not the Skopjans”Fair enough,only the Macedonians of Aegean and Republic of Macedonia are one and the same people-Macedonians.We were partitioned in 1913.You can put borders between people,but you cannot change their identity-ethnicity.Are you with me so far?.Borders do change,peoples identity do not!Greek ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia protested because the tourists did not know in which country they were,because people on both sides of the borders people look the same,eat,and drink the same.She forget,the people on both sides of the border are the same Macedonians.
      Akron,you must be one or the other,an Albanian or a Turkish Pontios or Vlahos,which is it?.Are you one of those as Droutsas,Karamanlis,or Papulias. All three have no roots to Ancient Hellens or Macedonians.Now,if this is not enough to convince you of your roots,go to “Ancestry.com”before you come back with your idiotic answer.Have a great day!

      1. About the British gameshow, are you aware the the couple was awarded the money and rthat the gamshow issued an aoplogy stating that of course Alexander was Greek? They also fired the game show employee resposible…he was a skopian hahaha. You can google this and find out the truth.

        Did you like the video from the British museum?

        Historians and museum curators around the world have come out condeming the use of the word Macedonia in your country’s name and demanding it be removed. In a scathing retort to your propaganda the British museum made this comment:
        Watch video:
        rtsp://v1.cache8.c.youtube.com/CjMLENy73wIaKgmjROrZ5l6EmBMYJCAkFEIGbXYtcmltSARSBXdhdGNoYLr7zYbi0LGbTww=/0/0/0/video.3gp
        Macedonians are Greeks, just like apples are fruits:)
        Skopjians are Bulgarians made to feel ashamed of themselves and wishing to possess the Glory of Greece.

  8. By the way Akron,I don’t have to proof to you that I am Macedonian,but you need to proof that you are a Greek.
    When a “Greek” got so upset,he finally acknowledge,his mother a Greek and father an Albanian.This is a guy who claimed purity of being Greek .Are you in the same boat?Same thing happened with Karamanlis,but Droutsas went even further,he said”I am born Macedonian,will die Macedonian”.Well guess what,his father a Cypriot and his mother an Austrian,does that making him a Macedonian?.Shameless Greeks!
    John Adams in 1783 said it right”
    After 230 years later they are still described in the same way,”corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage”.You have no courage to tell the truth.

    1. The Karammalis thing is a joke. It’s a pure fabrication. just liekt eh Adams quote.

      Provide the source of your Adams quote. You are embarassing yourself again. The quote is a Skopian invention. probably the same people who brought you the Rosetta Stone proves we a macedonians fraud.

      And you can’t prove you are Macedonian. At least not historically. You can say you are, you are free to do that, but we don’t have to accept you as one.
      One of Serbia’s communist leadership of the 1960′s was asked how they managed to make you macedonians. he said it was simple “replace every reference or use of the word Bulgarian with the word macedonian” . How pathetic.

  9. Historians and museum curators around the world have come out condeming the use of the word Macedonia in your country’s name and demanding it be removed. In a scathing retort to your propaganda the British museum made this comment:

    Watch video:
    rtsp://v1.cache8.c.youtube.com/CjMLENy73wIaKgmjROrZ5l6EmBMYJCAkFEIGbXYtcmltSARSBXdhdGNoYLr7zYbi0LGbTww=/0/0/0/video.3gp

    Macedonians are Greeks, just like apples are fruits:)
    Skopjians are Bulgarians made to feel ashamed of themselves and wishing to possess the Glory of Greece.

  10. How about the Museum of Brussels which refused to display the Bulgarian manuscripts as Macedonian? How do you feel that there isn’t one History department or museum in the world that accepts your version of history?
    The Brussels museum said that defending the academic integrity of there institution was more important than having the manuscripts on display. I think Gruevski finally capitulated and said of course the $anuscpripts are Bulgarian and they would turn them over to the museum.

  11. Akron,I am Macedonian for the very same reason you claim to be Greek.If I don’t have the rots to Alexander the Great,than you don’t have the roots to the name Greece.The difference between the Macedonian and Greeks is as follows;Greece in 1856-58 changed the language from Albanian and Latin to modern Greek language(Dimotiki).No person could serve in the army unless you spoke that language,are you with me so far?
    No the other side of the coin,the Macedonian language went through changes as well,but not as much as the Greek.Do you follow?.The Macedonian language has been spoken for centuries from grandfather to son and so on.Remember,we were not given the opportunity to learn our language through schooling.It has been preserved as I mentioned before.Same thing with the Greek language,as I said,you had to learn it in school,because the main language in 1856-58 was the Albanian and Latin.
    Latin because of the Roman Empire since 168 BC,and then the Ottoman Empire till 1829 for Greece,and later on in 1913 Macedonia transitioned from the Ottoman to a worse occupation by the three neighbors Greece,Bulgaria and Serbia.

    “US WANTED MACEDONIA INDEPENDENT BACK IN 1783″
    “The project of setting at liberty the whole country of ancient Greece,Macedonia,and Illyricum,and erecting independent Republics in those famous seats,however splendid it may appear in speculation,is not likly to be seriously entertained by the two Empires,because it is impracticable.The Greeks of this day,although they are said to have imagination and ingenuity,are corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage,as well as of those principals of honor and virtue,without which nations can have no confidence in one another,nor be trusted by others.”

    John Adams,one of US founding fathers,in a statement written back on July 14th 1783 to the first US State Secretary Robert Livingston,clearly states he wanted to see Macedonia as well as Greece independent from Ottoman rule.

    Unfortunately for some Balkan nations(including Macedonia),it was the French,Prussians(Germany) who decided who gets independence.

    The US president was well aware the French and Germans were pushing their own agenda on the Balkans.

    Adams then goes on to describe the Greeks as people…230 years later they are still described in the same way,”corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage…”.

    Fortunately,Republic of Macedonia got its full independence, one part in 1991,three other parts of Macedonia are still under foreign occupation.Since independence,we have full right to re-claim our history that was usurped by our occupiers, and we proudly have.
    I am proud Macedonian,I don’t need an occupier to tell me who I am!

  12. Let’s make one thing clear from the very start, the quotes you attribute to the United States and to John Adams are absolute fabrications. The US just finished fighting there war of independence, they were not interested in Southern European affairs. They were interested in Greek thought, but not the politics of the time. You should stop spreading this quote or atleast reference it to prove me wrong. The only other place I’ve seen these quotes is on the pages of MINA and they are known for spreading outright lies without ever referencing there material.
    The Greeks were not latin speakers, the population spoke and wrote and read Greek, very similar to Koine. Of course there have been advanced in expression in the 2000 years since Alexander, but it is still Greek. Just like Shakesperan English and modern English are the same language. The Greek langiage is used and written for thousands of years withour interuption. You are sugesting that it didn’t exiast under the Ottomnas and was somehow taught on mass to the population in the 1850s. This is the sort of stuff the makes Skopina propagandistss like yourself look stupid to the rest of the world. You think what you say is true just because you say it, or just because it suits your invented identity.
    The language your grandfathers spoke was Buglarian, just like the language you speak today. To make my case in point…do you need translators when speaking to a Bulgarian? Of course not….itKs the same language.
    Once again I leave you with this…the truth coming from the British Museum:
    Watch video:
    rtsp://v1.cache8.c.youtube.com/CjMLENy73wIaKgmjROrZ5l6EmBMYJCAkFEIGbXYtcmltSARSBXdhdGNoYLr7zYbi0LGbTww=/0/0/0/video.3gp

  13. Akron my good friend,politics in history does not give you the right to classify me as other than a Macedonian.There is a vast difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians,so it does with the Greeks.
    I don’t think I can get through your head,you don’t even get it what the Ancient Hellens wrote.To me looks straight forward what they wrote.As I said before,read what Isocrates wrote to Philip,also Demosthenes epitaph,as well as Alexanders in the case of Philotas,and Pithos action.
    The next question is;has any ancient Hellen used same language describing the wars between the City State of Athens and the Spartans in comparison to the Chaeronea.Did Athens claimed,they were defending the holy soil of Hellas from the Spartans or visa-vi?

  14. Peter, here are just a few quotes from Alexander the Great himself where he reffers to himself as Greek:

    “For I (Alexander I) myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery.” (Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])

    “Tell your king (Xerxes), who sent you, how his Greek viceroy (Alexander I) of Macedonia has received you hospitably.” (Herod. V, 20, 4 [Loeb])

    “Now, that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know.” (Herod. V, 22, 1 [Loeb])

    The country by the sea which is now called Macedonia… Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from Argos”
    (Thucydides 99,3 (Loeb, C F Smith)

    “But Alexander (I), proving himself to be an Argive, was judged to be a Greek;
    so he contended in the furlong race and ran a dead heat for first place.”
    (Herod. V, 22, 2)

    The speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games “Men of Athens…
    Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery….
    If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians.
    I am Alexander of Macedon.”
    (Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)

  15. Akron,we are like two different rivers,Volga runs north and Vardar runs south.Neither can be diverted.
    Greeces problems with Macedonia can be changed historically as well as politically.Greece requires courage to admit the truth,but then again,Adams was right back in 1783.
    Prime Minister of Britain Gladstone said”Macedonia for the Macedonians”back in 1876(date might be wrong).
    John Adams wanted Macedonia to be independent from the Ottoman Empire in 1783.

    Akron,have a nice day!

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