ISSN 2330-717X

Greece Floats Proposal For Macedonia Name Solution

By

(EurActiv) — Greece has tabled a draft memorandum of understanding apparently aimed at seeking a solution to its long-standing name dispute with EU candidate Macedonia. But EU diplomats expressed disappointment at its content, which doesn’t appear to make new proposals.

The draft memorandum, published Thursday (4 October) on the Greek foreign ministry website, repeats diplomatic language already used in bilateral documents, stressing that both sides would commit to respecting each other’s national sovereignty and territorial integrity, and renounce any present or future territorial claims.

Greece
Greece

In a direct reference to what is widely seen as appropriation of ancient Greek history by Macedonia (see background), it calls for both sides to agree that they would refrain from actions or statements that risk undermining the negotiations, “including through the use of symbols constituting part of the historical or cultural patrimony of the other.”

A fresh impetus?

Finally, the draft says that the sides would “agree to give a fresh impetus” to the talks to solve the name dispute under the auspices of the UN – despite years of efforts by a UN mediator to find a solution.

An EU diplomat said he saw “nothing new” in the Greek paper and that it was broadly seen as a “disappointment”.

Greece and Macedonia have been locked in a dispute over the smaller country’s constitutional name since it became independent from the crumbling Yugoslavia in 1991.

On the name issue, the Greek paper says that “any proposal should contain a clear and definitive qualifier”, which “will leave no ambiguities as to the distinction between the territory of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and regions in neighbouring countries, in particular, the region of Macedonia in northern Greece, and that the name agreed upon will be used by all erga omnes and for all purposes.”

“Erga omnes” means using the name to be agreed in “relations with everyone,” thus rejecting the notion that a name “for internal use” could be kept.

Speaking to the United Nations 67th General Assembly in New York last month, Greek Foreign Minister Dimitris Avramopoulos said Greece believed in a “fair settlement” resulting in a name with a “geographical qualifier” given that Macedonia is a geographical region that overlaps the territories of Greece, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslav republic.

‘Northern’ or ‘Upper’ Macedonia?

Diplomats have been speculating whether “Northern Macedonia” or “Upper Macedonia” could be acceptable to both sides.

According to the Macedonian daily Dnevnik, the authorities in Skopje said they would respond positively to the Greek memorandum, but also give their own version.

It remains unclear if Greece would lift its objection for Macedonia to start accession negotiations with the EU, in the case the memorandum is signed, even if the talks to find a mutually acceptable name still drag on.

Greece has itself set a priority for its EU presidency during the first half of 2014 “the revitalisation and acceleration of the enlargement process of all countries of the Western Balkans, including that of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.”

According to one EU diplomat, Greece may be tempted to unblock the accession talks with Macedonia, by signing the memorandum, just to “keep happy” its EU family. But he added that it was not in the interest of the Greek government to add to the public discontent with a compromise on the name issue, which would be seen by the country’s nationalists as an outrage.

Wasted time?

The timing of the memorandum apparently would help the European Commission to reaffirm Macedonia’s EU perspective. On 10 October the EU executive is due to publish its yearly reports on the progress – or lack of such – of the EU candidates and hopefuls: Iceland, Turkey, Macedonia, Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo.

The EU Commission issued a recommendation to start accession negotiations with Macedonia in December 2005. Since then, in the absence of the Greek veto – at least in theory – Macedonia could have wrapped up the negotiations. Croatia, another former Yugoslav republic, started accession negotiations in 2005, completed them in 2011 and is due to join the EU on 1 July 2013.

All 12 new EU members from the 2004-2007 waves of enlargement were able to conclude accession negotiations in less than six years.

EurActiv

EurActiv

EurActiv publishes free, independent policy news and facilitates open policy debates in 12 languages.

42 thoughts on “Greece Floats Proposal For Macedonia Name Solution

  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 9:21 am
    Permalink

    Wasted Time !!!! most probably skopia will reply “positive” with opposite proposals and so on !!! How ,any name change agreement with greece can be accepted by fyrom’s slavs today? don’t you know that two generations were born in FYROM with artificial and fake ideas of one so called “ancient macedonian distinct nation” (even non slavic , not related with bulgarians )in balkans , which was divided brutally in 1913 and their fatherlands are today under greek occupation?.for this reason ,Maps of “united Macedonia” produced by the bulgarian-macedonian colony in St Petersburg 1918 including the hellenic province of makedonia as part of their country are in all schools in fyrom , even their language which is is a clear south slavic -bulgarian idiom is considered by skopian academics as an ancient language which was spoken as native language by queen Cleopatra (!),and this “macedonian language” is written in hieroglyphic form (the demotic inscription)on rosetta stone epigraphy !! Yesdayday i read on skopian media that one “archaelogist” has almost discovered near Bitola the tomb of Alexander the great !! I think, the rising of 19th century rhetoric in fyrom ,and the ultra-nationalism along with irredentism expansionism have more options for a balkan war than a peacefull agreement .

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 11:23 am
    Permalink

    Skopians, Fyromians, Slavs……. you need to make up your mind on what your going to call the citizens of Macedonia, your trying so hard to deny the existence of Macedonians that your even confusing yourselves. Lets keep it simple for simple people, citizens of Greece are Greek and citizens of Macedonia are Macedonian! Keep practising this and you will eventually get it. Happy Days!!

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 11:37 am
    Permalink

    What stupidity! Greeks are effectively in free fall and this is what they come up with!

    How to annoy a Greek… Just suggest that Alexander the Great was a Macedonian, not a Greek and maybe even didn’t speak Greek… After all there is no evidence that Macedonia was Greek, just a lot of Western Classicists and Greek Nationalist idiots making assumptions…

    Why don’t Greeks just leave Mac alone and get on with saving their own country?

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 7, 2012 at 11:53 am
      Permalink

      No historical evidence that Macedonia was not Greek?? YOUR AN IDIOT!!!

      Reply
      • Avatar
        October 7, 2012 at 1:33 pm
        Permalink

        He is not an idiot ,but a fanatic nationalist brainwashed via school falsification history books .It is much worse !He confirms exactly everything i have said in my previous post

        Reply
        • Avatar
          October 7, 2012 at 7:19 pm
          Permalink

          Yes…my mistake..You are right:))

          Reply
    • Avatar
      October 7, 2012 at 2:19 pm
      Permalink

      @Philip-ski

      Ridiculous straw man. Of course Greeks think Alexander was Macedonians… therefore a self-identity Greek.

      Why are you former Yugoslavians (mostly descendents of former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians pretending to be related to ancient Macedonians “philip” while at same time claiming not to be Greek. You do realize by saying so you are saying you have nothing to do with ancient Macedonians right?

      Why doesn’t FYROM leave Greece alone and come up with its own unique identity instead

      Reply
    • Avatar
      October 7, 2012 at 3:06 pm
      Permalink

      How ironic. Someone who participates in Gruevski’s historical propaganda calling others stupid.

      Have you already “forgotten” what FYROM’s own elected government used to claim about your so-called “macedonian” identity Philip-ski?

      “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians” – Kiro Gligorov, FYROM’s first President
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBB8UjOHG_8

      ‘We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.’ – FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

      Reply
    • Avatar
      October 7, 2012 at 3:09 pm
      Permalink

      Not a single third party historian on earth Believe ancient Maceodnians were slavic. They would be laughed out of academia by their peers as incompetent.

      Sadly this is exactly the ridiculous nonsense they teach FYROM’s slavic population (mostly descendents of ethnic Bulgarians). Whats even more shocking, is it pretentious bigots apologists that pretend not to notice their behavior to cover up their shame for supporting them.

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    Permalink

    Even FYROMs own FA minister admits that they invented their identity and history for sinister reasons.

    Denko Malevski(1st minister of foreign affairs in FYROM):

    The creation of the “Macedonian” nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. In those years, we lost our capability for strategic dialog. With Greeks? No, with ourselves. Since then, namely, we reach towards some fictional ethnic purity which we seek in the depths of the history & we are angry at those which dare to call us Slavs & our language & culture Slavic? We are angry when they name us what we are if we have to define ourselves in such categories, showing that we are people full with complexes which are ashamed of ourselves.
    The idea that Alexander the Great belong to FYROM,was at the mind of some outsider political groups only!!These groups were insignificant the first years of our independence..the big problem is that the old Balkan Nations have been learned to legitimate themselves through their history. In Balkans,if you want to be recognised as a Nation,you need to have history of 3000 years old.Since Greeks made us to INVENT a history..we did invent it…

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 5:56 pm
    Permalink

    Mitsaras and others who claim Alexander was Greek makes no sence,I will explaineit in three parts,and here is why on the main question;
    First of all Ancient Macedonia was a kingdom,wheras Athens,Sparta and Thebes were city states.Isocrates makes that distincion with a letter to Philip that Greeks try to omit today.
    We need to refresh our memories about that letter where he Isocrates,makes clear that:”Philips ancestors understood that Greeks cannot submit to the rule of a monarch,while non Greeks actually cannot live without such regime”.People of non-kindred race was the term used by Isocrates to describe the Macedonians.Obviously,and with added emphasis,he is highlighting the distinction between the Macedonians and the Greeks.
    In the Lamian War,the Hellens were fighting againts Macedonia.The epitaph composed by Demosthenes is another proof in the difference berween the Hellens and the Macedonians.
    “Time whose oerseeng eye record all human action,bear word to mankind what fate was suffered,how striving to safeguard the holy soil of Hellas,upon Boeotias plain we died”.
    The distinction between Hellens and Macedonians is explicit;”how striving to safeguard the holy soil of Hellas from the attack of the Macedonians”
    Ancient Macedonians were not Greeks,they did not consider themseves to be Greeks,nore were they so considered by the ancient Greeks.
    Isocrates and Demosthenes were there in 338-337 bc.A true historian would analyze history according to the ancient historians,not just for glorification of selling fabricated history.
    Thomas Arnold,the founder of the school Ethos in 19th century in England,suggested that “fabricating Greek legends will profoundly improve the English image,even more than the Greek image”.
    Will continue…

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 7, 2012 at 7:21 pm
      Permalink

      the same idiot Peter (from canada) around 75 years old born as he claims in greece 1938 frequently presented with a greek name as nikolaidis pretending the “expelled macedonian” from greece 1948 once , he wanted to do DNA tests on the remains bones of king philip in vergina tombs, in order to get ancient macedonia certification ..he has a copy text from slavic diaspora with isolated quotes from ancient authors MOST OF THEM FALSIFIED in traslation in order to prove that ancient macedons were not greeks but slav actually bulgarians like him !!!he sends the same texts in every available web-net talks and ofcourse never gives any relevant reply to what he is asked , because he does not know even what he is writing,only asking questions !!!if some one wants to talk with a lunatic person…here it is..but .ask him why gotse delchev self identified as bulgarian in his letter to malishevski 1899 you will never take a reply

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 6:41 pm
    Permalink

    Here is my second part to disprove Greeces idiotic claimes:The term”Macedonian Slavs”is erroneous since the Macedonians,although conscious of their ancient Macedonian roots and Slav admixture,did not specifically call themselves”Macedonians Slavs”,but Macedonians as the documents over the last 2,500 years show.The same”Macedonian Slavs”mistake was again repeated by some western media,as the Albanian terrorists attacked Macedonia in March of 2001,and again it was done deliberately.This deliberate bias is again there,unfortunately because of the political situation and the western media’s inclination towards the goals of the Albanian terrorism for “Greater Albania”.Karl Hron an Austrian explained why that is unjustified”According to my own studies on the Serb-Bulgarian conflict I came to the conclusion that the Macedonians looking at their history and language are a separate nation,which means they are not Serbs nor Bulgarians,but the descendants of those Slavs who populated the Balkan peninsula long before the Serb and Bulgarian invasions,and who later did not mix with any of those other two nations…”and…the Macedonian language according to its own laws in the development of the voices, and its own grammatical rules,forms one separate language”.
    Mario Alinei,Dean Emeritus of the University of Utrecht,Director of several linguistic reviews and progenitor of the Continuity Theory,states;”continue next…

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 12:51 am
      Permalink

      You can’t even report modern history in your own lifetime correctly much less ancient history Peter.

      Where are your posts mentioning “minor” details like this about your so-called “Macedonian” ethnicity?

      “The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made.” (Denko Maleski, former Minister of foreign affairs of FYROM from 1991 to 1993 in an interview to FYROM newspaper Utrinski Vesnik)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 7:22 pm
    Permalink

    Mario Alinei:”I have to commence by clearing away one of the most absurd consequeces of the traditional chronology namely,that of the arrival of the Slavs into the immense area in which they now live.The only logical conclusion can be that the southern branch of the Slavs is the oldest and that from it developed the Slavic Western and Eastern branches…Today only a minority of experts support the theory of a late migration of the Slavs.
    Recent genetic studies conducted by Oxford University reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians carry only 15.2% of the Slav gene,slightly above modern Greeks and Albanians and less than Serbs and Bulgarians!They furthere reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians have the highest amount of the Mediterranean gene of all European people!
    This was also confirmed by the University of Madrid studies.In a court of law,it is genetic proof that is conclusive,I might add!”
    He goes on and puts a question to the Greeks:”Here is a suggestion for the Greeks,how about DNA tests on the remains of thr Royal Macedonian Tombs,uncovered and desecrated by Greeks in todays occupied Macedonia?Follow this up with genetic tests on modern Greek and Macedonian population…we will soon see the truth!In summation…Ethnic,yes todays Ethnic Macedonians cannot possibly be of the old Mediterean substratum if they were Slavs arriving in the Balkans in 6th century as the 19th century Western construct asserts!!Todays ethnic Macedonians are authocthonous to Macedonia,it is very simple!Their language,unintelligable to the ancient Greeks,was a form of proto Macedonian/Slav,which then spread outward,becoming more complex as it moved further away from Macedonia.Countless proto Macedonian letters unearthed on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia(and no doubt in Pirin and Aegean Macedonia),though the respective occupiers have no doubt concealed them from the world because it does not fit their lies,I attest to this fact”.
    What Greece and Bulgaria are doing is,to eliminate the Macedonian idiom in order for them to retain the Macedonian history that does not belong to them!.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 7, 2012 at 11:30 pm
    Permalink

    Mitsaras,calm down my friend.There is one thing for shure,is you cannot suppress the truth.
    Mitsaras,your questions have been answered in full,the question is,can you get out of the Greek fabrications and write the truth.
    Am I who fabricates what Isocrates wrote to Philip,am I fabricating what Demosthenes wrote for the fallen Hellens during the Lamian War between the Hellens and Macedonians,have I misrepressented the truth on what Ralis said at the interview for the “New York Times”in 1903,have I missquoted former PM Mitsotakis what he said at an interview for the T.Skinalis book”For The Name of Macedonia”in 1995,have I misslead anyone what Alexander the Great said to Philotas at his trial for treason in Asia?.
    You Mitsaras,on every comment you write is that we don’t exist,we are Bulgarians,Serbs or Greek.First of all,when Macedonia existed,there was no Bulgaria nor Serbia.These people came to the Balkans centuries after.The same claim you make about the “Greek Empire”of Alexander.The question is;how in the world can a victor be subservant to the oppressed-Macedonians over the Hellens since 338 bc!Do you know anything about Chaeronea?.
    Please if you can(have the guts)to explane to the readers on this site;what Isocrates meant with his letter to king Philip,also the meaning of Demosthenes by “Holy soil of Hellas,we died”.Your nonsence of “Bulgarians”is a bit too funny!People deserve the truth my friend,not bull that you Greeks are spreading.You have not answered one question I have asked of you.
    You Greeks maintain,that the Macedonians are Greek.When you say,the people of Northern Greece(occupied Macedonia)are Greeks,do you know that this is a cardinal falsigication?.
    The Greek ambassador to Macedonia said it right when she sent a protest note to the Macedonian government by saying”The tourists don’t know in which country they are,they eat,drink,look alike same culture as the ones in Northern Greece”.I quess,she forget,there is a border that divides the people from each other,but you cannot divide the people of same idiom.Now,you became very personal in your comment,I will returne your kind words by replying in kind,:You are nothing,but a malakismenos,because you always write malakies!

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 12:51 am
      Permalink

      ‘The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimize themselves through their history. In the Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece ) forced us to invent a history, we did invent it.’
      (FYROM Foreign Minister Denko Maleski – 1991 to 1993)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlDLmufGHqQ&feature=related

      Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 12:54 am
      Permalink

      “Men of Athens, that which I am about to say I trust to your honour; and I charge you to keep it secret from all excepting Pausanias, if you would not bring me to destruction. Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Greece, I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself a Greek by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery” 9 ” – Alexander I of Macedonia, … self-identifying Greek denied his Hellenic self-identification by modern Slavic inhabitants of former Yugoslav republic, (Herodotus, Histories, book 9)

      http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.9.ix.html

      Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 12:57 am
      Permalink

      Calm down Peter. You have essentially nothing to do with ancient Macedonians. Rather than praying to church of Gruevski I would recommend you criticize his regime for oppressing evidence of FYROM’s ethnic Bulgarian past.

      “Prior to the creation of a Macedonian republic in 1944,most Macedonian immigrants viewed themselves as ethnically Bulgarian and often referred to themselves as Macedonian-Bulgarians or simply Bulgarians.While immigration records failed to list Macedonians as separate category,approximately three-quarters of those listed as Bulgarians were‍ from the regions of Kostur and Bitola in Macedonia.” – James R. Grossman, University of Chicago

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 12:53 am
    Permalink

    This accredited historians… including many from some of the most prestigious universities in the world.. disagree with your view ancient Macedonians were Slavic like you Peter.

    On November 4, 2004, two days after the re-election of President George W. Bush, his administration unilaterally recognized the “Republic of Macedonia.”  This action not only abrogated geographic and historic fact, but it also has unleashed a dangerous epidemic of historical revisionism, of which the most obvious symptom is the misappropriation by the government in Skopje of the most famous of Macedonians, Alexander the Great.
    http://macedonia-evidence.org/documentation.html

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 3:02 am
    Permalink

    Peter, how do you feel that the DNA study you quote was described as fraudulent and remains unpublished. That is was paid for by your Skopje government and is un scientific? It was described as a complete fabrication.

    I’m sure you feel okay about quoting it though…just look at the rest of the crap you post lol

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 5:42 am
    Permalink

    Many here that post racists xenophobic offensive remarks against Ethnic Macedonians can take their opinions & beliefs to the church of Golden Dawn, where they are most welcome!
    The days of Makronisos (Isle of shame), dictatorships and caster oil are long gone. Freedom of expression and association cannot and will not be eradicated, even by a pathetic EU signature State!
    The truth here is that Megali Ellada is fighting for its own life, one exposed and now needs to justify it’s own history, many know as simply a romantic fabrication and lie.
    One littered with holes and half truths to suite it’s own cause of existence! Simply just another player in the Balkans spending big bucks to eradicate anything that is ethnic Macedonian!
    How can Megali Ellada ever recognise an independent Macedonia, when it is then faced with having to recognise and possibly pay compensation to those ethnic Macedonians it had committed documented human rights atrocities and offences against! This is where the real reason lays – nothing more! Megali Ellade along with it’s many Hellenised cronies on this thread do not reflect the ancients, but a fabricated romantic western dream!
    The Republic of Macedonia has the right to self determination. The Ethnic Macedonian language, traditions, culture and peoples have the right to prosper like any other ethnicity. They are rightfully the true Aboriginals of Macedonia!

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 8:57 pm
      Permalink

      Surely I believe you are Greek. Nice fake handle.

      Here is what the government of the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians of the former Yugoslav republic think the absolute right to recognition when it comes to Republic of China

      “The Macedonian side stated once again that it will not establish official ties of any form or conduct official exchanges with Taiwan, and that it opposes Taiwan’s accession to any international organization whose membership requires statehood”
      http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90883/6315770.html

      Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 9:02 pm
      Permalink

      Manipulative FYROM natioanlist like you that try to trick other users by pretending to be Greek lack any ethics whatsoever.

      You throw around the word “racism” to hide your own racism and ultra nationalism. Sorry the Greek people will not commit ethnic and national suicide because you former ethnic Bulgarians have an identity crisis (of your own making). Go get your own identity and stop harassing your neighbours for their own you hate filled hypocritical bigot.

      ‘The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimize themselves through their history. In the Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece ) forced us to invent a history, we did invent it.’
      (FYROM Foreign Minister Denko Maleski – 1991 to 1993)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlDLmufGHqQ&feature=related

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 2:31 pm
    Permalink

    The identity and history of Skopje is as real as the claim that the demotic Egyptian on the Rosetta Stone is really their ancient “macedonian” language LOL. The entire history is invented.
    Skopje true identity is constructed by communist propagandists after 1944. Simple as that.
    FYROM is Europe’s own little N.Korea.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 2:51 pm
    Permalink

    Modern Macedonia history and language were created during Tito’s time and their propaganda; and the people came from… well they were created from test-tube babies. They were brainwashed and thought that they are Macedonians. they used Dawn for the brain washing.

    -excerpt from a Greek intelectual

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 5:05 pm
    Permalink

    nikolaidis and peter is the same person see my previous post October 7, 2012 at 7:21 then you will understand

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 5:52 pm
    Permalink

    Some from the slavic diaspora living in other dimentions are trying to prove to ordinary people .that King Philip of macedon , or his son alexander the great were not greeks (maybe slavs or bulgarians like them),using isolated quotes from ancient authors most are falsified in english translation . i am not going to attach all bibliography for the sake of some pathetic brainwashed slavs.But i will say only one thing for the european readers . the ancient macedonian royal family claimed descent from the Temenids of Argos, in the Peloponnese, whose legendary ancestor was Temenus, the great-great-grandson of Greek hero Heracles. for that reason their dynasty was called argead dynasty or timenides or heraklides. so see the encyclopedias to see the story and also to imagine with what sub-humans ultra-nationalists the civilized world is talking for history in balkans

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 6:08 pm
    Permalink

    The royal family of macedon were proud for their greek family ancestry of timenides from Argos, in southern Greece they didn’t have in mind that 2500 years later some slavs with bulgarian origins will claim them as their ancestors !!!

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 6:39 pm
    Permalink

    I PROPOSE to eurasianews not accepting comments that are a subject of copyright so the commentators will not have the ability to paste propaganda texts like the lunatics nationalists are doing here but only talks using keyboards

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 8:47 pm
    Permalink

    @Peter-the-Great-ski.

    I find it facinating how fanatics like have you already “forgotten” what FYROM’s own elected politicians used to claim about your so-called “macedonia” heritage.

    ‘We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.’ – FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

    “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians” – Kiro Gligorov, FYROM’s first President
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBB8UjOHG_8

    ‘We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.’ – FYROM’S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka, speech to US representatives in Washington on January 22 1999

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 8:53 pm
    Permalink

    @Peter

    You are the one jumping from 3rd century BC to 20th century champ. FYROM’s modern “Macedonian” is 100% a modern creation. (out of primarily self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians) There is no historian on earth (other than FYROM) that claims you Slavs have anything meaningful to do with ancient Macedonians. All you have going for you is the mob of patronizing Greek haters that trusted your government’s prior identity claims and now dishonestly pretend not to notice your identity quick change into “ancient Macedonians” and irredentism.

    Ancient Macedonians were self-identifying Hellenes whether or not convenient to you and your apologists. No amount of historical propaganda will ever change the fact.. nor the fact most of you are direct descendents of ethnic Bulgarians.

    “Prior to the creation of a Macedonian republic in 1944,most Macedonian immigrants viewed themselves as ethnically Bulgarian and often referred to themselves as Macedonian-Bulgarians or simply Bulgarians.While immigration records failed to list Macedonians as separate category,approximately three-quarters of those listed as Bulgarians were‍ from the regions of Kostur and Bitola in Macedonia.” – James R. Grossman, University of Chicago

    “Greeks have lived in Anatolia for millennia, especially along the Aegean coast. For a while, under Alexander, they dominated the land. And for all intents and purposes, the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire at the time) was Greek. When Mehmct 11 conquered Constantinople, he appointed a Greek monk to the orthodox Patriarch and allowed him to govern both the religious and secular affairs of the Greek community. The first Ottoman census, of 1477, counted half of Constantinople’s population as Greek, and four-hundred years later, even after the Greek War of Independence, it was still 21 percent Greek. – Lowenthal, David (1998). The heritage crusade and the spoils of history. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 245.”

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 8, 2012 at 10:54 pm
      Permalink

      I could not resist but write a reply.Your idiocity is beyond me my friend.Are you implying the Roman Empire was “Greek Empire”?Is this same idiocity as you Greeks claim,Alexanders Macedonian Empire was Greek?
      I quess you will put a similar claim on the Ottoman Empire,are you or should I say you are?
      Hey,the “Megali Idea” is dead for long time now.During the Roman Empire,Macedonia was recognised as a Roman province,but NOT Greece because you did not exist.The modern nation of Greece is a mixture of different people,no ancient ones exist for centuries.Greeces nation is based on religion,not on ethnic lines as there are no Greek ethnics.One of you have claimed that on the Ottoman cencus Macedonia is not mentioned.Neither you are mentioned,they used religion as you do today in Greece.Have you seen the cencus of 1929 in Greece?.You should read it,you might learn something and then you can write about it!
      I have to handed to you Greeks,you are the best in fabricating history,no one can deny you that.Please read what Alinei’s research says on the matter of the Macedonians existance,time of setling in the Balkans etc.
      Why are you Greeks refusing DNA tests as Alinei suggests?.I bet,these tests can setle the Balkan fabricated history that was writen by an Austrian by the name of Otto,your very first king.

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 8, 2012 at 11:59 pm
    Permalink

    I propose that we put a muzzle on the Ultra Nationalist Golden Dawn lunatic party member Mitsaras!

    Where do you think you find yourself in down town Athens ??

    What authority do you have in asking Eurasia news to stop posting comments of others, particular from the very people you try to eradicate-namely Ethnic Macedonians!!

    You alone are typical of what currently comes out of any 101 Athenian text book, nothing more!

    Reply
    • Avatar
      October 9, 2012 at 8:30 pm
      Permalink

      I propose we put a “muzzle” on FYROM ultra nationalist lunatic “T Nikolaidis”. Nice fake name there buddy. How is the whether in Skopje this time of year?

      On what authority do you have in asking Eurasia news to stop posting comments of others, particular from the very people you try to eradicate-namely Ethnic Greeks. (in particular Macedonians ones)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    October 9, 2012 at 11:58 pm
    Permalink

    Anonymous It is YOU that hides behind another name not me.

    Turkospori Prosfigas I am from Selo Pesosnica Lerin, Egejska Makedonija born and proud!
    Go and tend to your graves in Asia Minor

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 10, 2012 at 9:37 am
    Permalink

    Worst case scenario for Greece: FYROM is known as Macedonia to all; a few people elsewhere in the world (who don’t care one way or the other anyways) are mistakenly led to believe that Alexander was Slavic or that current Macedonians have lived theere since ancient times; anyone who is educated or cares to look it up knows otherwise; everyone’s day to day life everywhere carries on as usual; and within two generations nobody cares anymore, because new generations of Greeks realize that their own heritage will always be their own heritage, and they can’t control what everyone else everywhere thinks about them, nor do they particularly give a damn what anyone else thinks of them.

    Yup, that sounds like a horrible, horrible future ahead of you if you let FYROM keep their current name. Boo-hoo, Greece, cry me a river. There is a reason the whole rest of the world laughs at this stupid and childish posturing. It’s simply NOT that IMPORTANT. Grow up.

    You are who YOU are, regardless of who FYROMers say THEY are.

    Why don’t you show the greatness of the Greek nation, culture, and heritage by dropping these adolescent objections and showing the world that Greece considers working in peace and tolerance with its neighbors in the present and contributing to a better future for all to be more important than delivering tedious and strident history lessons. The current Greek position just shames your nation in the eyes of the rest of the world.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 11, 2012 at 5:45 pm
    Permalink

    Lets keep things real simple so even the descendants of Tito can understand.
    MAKEDONIA THESSALONIKI ALEXANDROS PHILIPPOS Only have meaning in HELLENIC. They mean obsolutely nothing in FYROMs native language. Bulgarians and Fyromians Need NO TRANSLATOR when speaking to each other. During the Balkan wars and the World Wars Fyromians showed their true cultural and ethnic colors the answer was consistently BULGARIAN. So you can keep repeating historical lies unfortunately history has been written and we dont need a fyromian translation we can read it in the language it was written in..HELLENIC.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 12, 2012 at 2:32 am
    Permalink

    The cultural oppression of the indigenous Macedonian population in Aegean Macedonia is an international embarrassment for Athens and to the European Union, and it is the root cause of Athens hostility towards the Republic of Macedonia. Athens the time of Metaxas is long gone!

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 17, 2012 at 6:48 pm
    Permalink

    I have read all the comments very carefully, and realised complete extremism. As Greece keeps the name dispute alive the more nationalism emerges in FYR Macedonia. Now, historical evidence is there and people make their own interpretations. No one denies that the ancient Macedonians were a greek tribe, all serious people know that, a fact is always a fact, let us not stay there. I am worried that Golden Dawn in my country got strong and I am also worried that FYR Macedonia insists on the Antiquisation Policy. I think, as a Greek I can imagine someone to claim greek heritage, which after all belongs to the whole world, but to postulate that Greek Macedonians who live in the northern part are occupiers is a skandal, its upsurd. The win-win solution would be to share the name like “Upper or North or Vardar Macedonia” for FYR Macedonia. It’s more accurate, and a fair compromise.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    October 24, 2012 at 10:16 pm
    Permalink

    How can you compromise on one ethnicity ? Athens needs to get it’s own affairs with it’s own ethnic Macedonian minority before it barks orders to others!

    October 24, 2012 – Washington, D.C. – On October 23, 2012, Archimandrite Nikodim Tsarknias, the religious leader of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in Greece, met with Dr. Suzan Johnson Cook, the U.S. Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom at the U.S. Department of State. Archimandrite Tsarknias brought to Ambassador Johnson Cook’s attention the challenges of the Macedonian Orthodox faith community in Greece and the Greek government’s long-standing policy of hampering down on faith-based communities.

    “Greece is the only European Union member-state that has no separation of church and state and the only faith-based community recognized with special privileges is the Greek Orthodox Church, which is embedded within the Greek Constitution – the root of the problem in Greece,” said Archimandrite Tsarknias. “The U.S. and the European Union must call upon Greece to allow the existence of other faith-based communities with equal rights under the Greek Constitution. Greece has a duty to uphold its obligations under international law in terms of religious freedom.”

    Archimandrite Tsarknias is the first clergyman of the Macedonian Orthodox Church to have such a high-level meeting with a U.S. Administration Official. In 2011, President Barack Obama appointed Dr. Suzan D. Johnson Cook as Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom, a position confirmed by the United States Senate. She is the principal advisor to both the President of the United States and Secretary of State for Religious Freedom globally. She is the first African-American and the first female to hold this position.

    The Office of International Religious Freedom has the mission of promoting religious freedom as a core objective of U.S. foreign policy. The Office monitors religious persecution and discrimination worldwide, recommends and implements policies in respective regions or countries, and develops programs to promote religious freedom.

    Archimandrite Tsarknias is on an official visit to the United States to discuss the rise of extremism in Greece and the impact it is having on faith-based communities in the country. The United Macedonian Diaspora’s Greece representative Eugenia Natsoulidou joined him on this visit and both will travel to Ottawa later this week to bring attention of the problems the Macedonian native community in Greece is facing before Canadian officials.

    Archimandrite Tsarknias entered the ranks of the Greek Orthodox Church 39-years-ago. Following several disagreements over a 20-year-period with Greek Orthodox Church authorities for his preaching the Bible in the Macedonian language, the Church defrocked him. Since then, he has been jailed, beaten by police, intimidated by the Greek secret services and till this day has not been allowed to build a fully-functioning Macedonian Orthodox Church in Greece. Archimandrite Tsarknias lives with tremendous fear for his life on a daily basis, and has been subjected to over a dozen lawsuits and arrest warrants, costing him and the Macedonian native community in Greece over 50,000 euros in legal fees.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.