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Why Is EU Demanding That Macedonia Change Its Name?

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By Bill Nicholov

“The EU is not involved in changing the identity of people. Identity is something sacred and it should not be negotiable,” according to European Union ambassador Erwan Fouere.

So why is the EU demanding that Macedonia change its name in order to gain membership?

Mr. Fouere was responding to the latest European Commission report that removed references to the Macedonian language and used the term “state language” instead. The United Nations followed suit and removed all references to the Macedonian language. Macedonia had to demand reinstatement.

Greece claims that it wants the Republic of Macedonia to change its name to “prevent confusion” with the province of Macedonia.

Does the EU actually believe this? Then again, it is bailing out Greece after it blatantly lied about its economic situation.

The nonsensical name dispute was initiated by Greece in order to continue its policy of non-recognition and persecution of its large Macedonian minority. Former Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis admitted in 1995,

“My main aim was to convince the Republic [of Macedonia] to declare that there is no Slavomacedonian [using the Greek government’s pejorative term for the Macedonians of Greece] minority in Greece. This was the real key of our difference with Skopje.”

Ironically, Greece now claims that “Macedonia is Greek”, but it was not until 1988, when Greece realized that independence for the Republic of Macedonia was imminent, that it renamed “Northern Greece” to “Macedonia.” Prior to this, Greece’s policy was that Macedonia did not exist. Now its policy is “The more outrageous the lie, the more believable it becomes”.

The question is, does the world believe it? The answer appears to be “no”. 129 countries, including four of the five permanent UN Security Council members, have recognized Macedonia. Now will these countries take the next logical step and denounce the name negotations as an unprincipled intrusion on the constitution of a sovereign nation?

Unfortunately, the United States, which has already recognized Macedonia, is calling for a “compromise”. The US views itself as a leader in spreading democracy and human rights throughout the world. So how does it justify asking a country to change its own name?

The European Union and NATO have taken it one step further. In addition to calling for a “solution”, the EU and NATO are allowing themselves to be handcuffed by Greece’s racist and xenophobic policies. Every NATO member-state supported Macedonia’s membership, yet Greece was permitted to veto it.

According to former US Secretary of State, Lawrence Eagleburger, “The name dispute is unnecessary and unfounded, since Macedonia was called the same in the time of former Yugoslavia and this did not cause any problems then”. He added, “Is there anything more immature and more foolish than ‘blackmailing’ a nation by denying its membership in international organizations, which goal is to preserve the peace and protect their members from aggression of non-members.”

Yet for two decades, the United Nations admission of Macedonia as a member under the “temporary” reference “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” persists.

If Greece’s “name dispute” with Macedonia made any sense, then where are the calls from the US State of Georgia for the Republic of Georgia to change its name? How about the Belgian province of Luxembourg demanding that Luxembourg change its name?

The first UN mediator for the name dispute, Robin O’Neil, said that “Macedonia must not and will not change its name in order to appease Greece. If Macedonia succumbs to pressures and changes its name, such events will only give more firepower to Greece until it reaches its final goal – Macedonia to vanish from the map.”

Every Macedonian government has continued the ridiculous name negotiations solely to satisfy American and Western European pressure to find a “compromise” with Greece. Instead of capitulating to countries that demand a change to Macedonia’s name and identity, the Macedonian government must immediately end the name negotiations and demand support from these countries.

Bill Nicholov, President
Macedonian Human Rights Movement International
www.mhrmi.org

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62 thoughts on “Why Is EU Demanding That Macedonia Change Its Name?

  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 2:10 am
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    The name is FYROM. The country agreed to the name: the former yugoslav republic of Macedonia – pending resolution with Greece as to the name of the country.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 2:32 am
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    This article is offencive and racist. I am a Macedonian and everytime the name Macedonia comes up I feel sickened because of this situation. Why should this country be allowed to use the name Macedonia when the UN advised that they could not use this name when they formed a new country. Why does this article only take a one sided racist view on this topic. What about the millions of Greek Macedonians having to sit back while this dubious nation tries to steal our identity. Why are hundreds of the world scholars and historians protesting fyrom’s attempt to usurper Greek Macedonian, Heroes, Symbols, History and Identity.
    http://macedonia-evidence.org/

    The worlds most renouwned Historians and Schiolars also protest FYROM not just Greece.

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 8, 2011 at 2:37 pm
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      I don’t usually reply to people that have a distorted opinion based on hear say,or served by Gov. propaganda. This time I will make the exception, only to protect the impartial and uninformed good natured innocent readers.

      Greek claim that Macedonia and Macedonians are Greek is falsification of history , attack to democracy , decency and civility.
      There are volumes of proofs to support this, do to space constraints I will mention few :

      The Greek Prime Minister : ” when the big war comes Macedonians will become Greeks or Bulgarians, according to who wins , if Greece wins we will make all of the Greeks” I don’t think comments are needed to this statement.

      In the city of Solun ( Thessaloniki ) Greece had a Consulate until less than 100 years ago !! If Macedonia was Greece as claimed why was a consulate needed.

      By law enforced by Greek Gov. ALL Macedonian personal names were changed ( by force ) to Greek including the names of dead Macedonians!!! . ALL toponims were changed from their original Macedonian names to Greek !?

      From the above examples one can easily conclude the truth.

      Up to you to accept it.

      Reply
      • Avatar
        January 18, 2011 at 7:57 pm
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        Denko Maleski, politician of the FYROM:

        “The lack of capability by Macedonists in condition of democracy, also contributes to the vision of their opponents. The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the Macedonian historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the Macedonian identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made. In a case which that was not possible, the persons from history were proclaimed for Bulgarian agents who crossed into some imaginary pure Macedonian space.

        But when we had to encourage the moderate Greek political variant and move into a direction of reconciliation among peoples, our nationalism was modelled according to the Greek one. The direct descendants of Alexander the Great raised the fallen flag on which the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia was written and led the people in the final confrontation with the Hellenes (Greeks), the direct descendants of Greek gods. This warlike attitude of the “winners” which was a consequence of the fear of politician from heavy and unpopular compromises had its price. In those years, we lost our capability for strategic dialog. With Greeks? No, with ourselves. Since then, namely, we reach towards some fictional ethnic purity which we seek in the depths of the history and we are angry at those which dare to call us Slavs and our language and culture Slavic!? We are angry when they name us what we -if we have to define ourselves in such categories- are, showing that we are people full with complexes which are ashamed for ourselves. We lost our capability for reasonable judgment, someone shall say, because the past of the Balkans teaches us that to be wise among fools is foolish. Maybe. Maybe the British historians are right when they say that in history one can find confirmation for every modern thesis, so, we could say, also for the one that we are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians…”

        (Utrinski Vesnik newspaper, October 16, 2006)

        Reply
    • Avatar
      November 4, 2018 at 11:53 pm
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      Hello and good evening.I do not want to offend any part of course. The facts are very clear in history.With the Slav invasion in the 6th century, most of the Balkan peoples have been assimilated, the changes in the course of human history have always been, I AM NOT TO TEACH YOU, BECAUSE I SEE THAT JUDGES ONLY FROM YOUR PART AND NOT FROM ALL THE TWO NATIONS. Today’s Macedonians have been here for centuries, mutations have always been there all over the world !!!!!!!!! The fact is that North Greece was until 1988, and then later renamed it in the suburbs of Macedonia. He had no right to negotiate a name of a nation, it is a shame …

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 4:03 am
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    Mr. Nicholov is propagating false information.

    In 1988, Greece renamed its Ministry of Northern Greece to the Ministry of Macedonia-Thrace. The Greek Province of Macedonia existed prior to 1988 and continues to be called Macedonia.

    Dont take my word for it. Investigate it for yourselves.

    For additional info, please see

    http://www.macedonia-evidence.org where Academics from all over the world (most non-greek) have signed on to a petition refuting the Propaganda of FYROM activists such as Mr. Nicholov.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 5:28 am
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    Hey Nikolaou go show everybody your passport and tell them how MACEDONIAN You are.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 9:47 am
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    dear bill, stop lying and revising history.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 9:50 am
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    Another piece of Macedonian Propaganda full of inacurracies and half-truths.

    Which are these so-called “129 countries”?

    Why does RoM’s government fear so much that it prevents them from publishing an official list of these countries?

    Almost each time a Representantive/Mouthpiece of RoM’s state will refer to the issue, he will give a different number making it apparent to anybody that they are simply lying. If you intend to keep harping the same nonsense at least provide a list with the countries.

    Now we have the very same people who have oppressed their own Bulgarian Minority crying about “Human Rights”. How ridiculous!

    For decades whoever dared to identify in former Yugoslavia/RoM as Bulgarian, he would face not only losing his job but the worst kind of persecutions, even finding himself jailed/thrown to “Psychiatric Institutions”. The recent issue of Spaska Mitrova is a fine example what Bulgarians in RoM still suffer from RoM’s Nationalistic Regime.

    Is there anything more immature and more foolish than having the very same people who have “invented” a falsified History by stealing Bulgarian, Greek, Albanian heroes, all the time have to point so hypocritically the finger elsewhere??

    I concede that the name negotiation is ridiculous from the right begining. Decades of brainwashing have resulted to have currently a Macedonian population in RoM full of hatred for its neighbours – especially bulgarians, racism being prevalent and Irredentism wet dreams about territories from neighbouring countries.

    A Nationalitic Regime like RoM who cultivate Propaganda, Invented history and Irredentism are in no position to have any meaningful negotiations with anyone.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 10:17 am
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    In answer to your letter’s title “why is EU Demanding that Macedonia Change its name?”. The answer is simple. In 1993, FYROM agreed to the following terms: To use the name FYROM until a resolution to the name was reached, and by doing so, it would then be allowed to join the United Nations. As FYROM accepted this, it was admitted into the UN. The EU has also accepted this agreed undertaking by FYROM. However, as you are well aware, FYROM then went back on its word and adopted Republic of Macedonia and insists on using it.
    So, if FYROM wants to join the EU, it needs to adhere to the 1993 agreement. Do I need to stress it any simpler? [and no, I am not a Greek]

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 10:25 am
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    The slavs of FYROM have to come to the realisation that stealing the Greek culture to create their own culture based on a lie is fooling the world. Not only that, they are stealing from bulgaria’s identity and Serbia and trying o fool the world.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 10:31 am
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    Nobody’s asking Skopje to change its name or identity — just not to steal someone else’s name and identity. If Skopje truly seeks good relations with its neighbours it wouldn’t provoke them. And make no mistake, Skopje isn’t only provoking Greece by building giant statues of Alexander the Great and printing stamps that include Greece’s northern province of Macedonia or by using the symbol of ancient Macedonia unearthed in Pella, northern Greece, it is also provoking Albania, Bulgaria and Serbia. If Skopje thinks that it can better the lot of its people by starting a new First World War or Balkan War it should think again, as at the moment its only friend is Turkey, and we all know why Turkey would want to become friends with Skopje and supply it with military equipment.

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 6, 2011 at 10:35 pm
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      Dear Francis,

      it is so sad to read posts like yours. The only cure for people like you is to come to Macedonia, meet us, the real Macedonians, and try to cionvince us that we are not what we are. Imagine your first neighbor saying that you are not Francis Wilson, and that if you want to be a frined with him/her, you need to become Franko Nobody! How ridiculous of all of you.

      But yet, you are all welcome to Macedonia, to speak freely about your frustrations, which is not the case with Greece.

      Have a great day!

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 5, 2011 at 10:46 am
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    Rainbow party in Greece – supporting allegedly (slavo)macedonian minority in Greece, never received more than 9.000 votes, less than 0,09%, in all elections the last twenty years. That hardly defines a large minority.

    Reply
  • Pingback:FYROM and the European Union | Visions of Tomorrow – The European Union

  • Avatar
    January 7, 2011 at 1:27 am
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    What the hell is a ‘greek Macedonian’? Why is it that athens never made a fuss about the name prior to Macedonia’s independence? I believe the racists in Athens need to read a book that hasn’t been published in athenialand to see a proper view of history of the Balkans. ‘fyrom’ only exist only in your racist nation, everywhere else in the world we Macedonians from the Republic of Macedonia. That’s the only truth. You greeks being majority Christians, should do as the bible says and love thy neighbor. Merry Christmas to all Macedonians around the world and to all other orthodox Christians who celebrate Christmas today. Поздрав до сите Македонци

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 17, 2011 at 1:09 pm
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      ‘From the Greeks we took it, to the Greeks we give it back’
      Turkish Pasha on the negotiation for the surrender of the city of Thessaloniki.

      Greece never made a fuss untill it started seeing Alexander the Great statues raised in FYRoM city squares, stadiums and streets renamed after Greek heroes.
      Greece never made a fuss untill it saw maps of FYRoM including Greek provinces.
      Greece never madwe a fuss untill it had to stand up and protect its identity from frauds and revisionsts.

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 7, 2011 at 8:59 am
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    Well the fyrom should take heed of how the most undemocratic govenment in the entire world actually behaves and tell them to go stick it, they will lose all autonomy and their nation will get enveloped in barosso’s empire if they contunue with the idea of joining. There is no benefit to anyone other than corrupt politicians for the eussr to continue, stay away from it if you value your nation and its principles.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm
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    More propaganda from the FYROM side! If only it was just about the name! FYROM is trying to falsify Greece’s history and heritage, it is propagating against its neighbor and then it demands to become “allies” and belong to the same European family! Would you allow someone like this to be your “ally”? It is not just EU, but also USA as the writer of this article mentions, and even the UN..If the concerns of Greece were wrong, then no one would have stood by its side.
    For more please visit my blog (www.eblanademocraticmove.blogspot.com) and read the article “The issue with FYROM” to understand what is really behind the struggle between Greece and FYROM, from the liberation from the Ottoman Empire, the role of the Bulgarians, the Jews, and other minorities of the region, the will of the European powers, the Greek civil war and everything that lead to this until today.

    Greetings from Dublin.

    Chris

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 8, 2011 at 6:46 am
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    Nickov,
    What language do you speak?
    Answer: Bulgarian.

    What is your ethnicity?
    Answer: Slavic (Western Bulgarian).

    What is the ancient geographical name of your land?
    Paoinia (Ancient Macedonia is in Greece)

    What is your name?
    Something “…ov”

    Case closed! neighbour.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm
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    Demanding a name change is not just undemocratic, unprecedented but absurd and chauvinistic act. This is not justifiable in the 21 century. Greece has to stop the cultural genocide and somebody such as the EU have to wake up and start listening instead of, leaning on the Greek side.

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 14, 2011 at 1:42 pm
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      Kiro Gligorov, first president of the FYROM:

      “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians.”

      (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35)

      “We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That’s who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia… Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century AD.”

      (Toronto Star, March 15, 1992)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 10, 2011 at 9:04 pm
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    The absurd thing about Greeks is that they think Macedonia has changed its constitutional name when it entered UN! Macedonia NEVER changed its name and Greece is still trying to impose a CONSTITUTIONAL name change to the Republic, which is IMPOSSIBLE. The name “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” is only for use in the UN and a few other international institutions where Greece has a power of veto. Nobody can obliges countries or people NOT to use the real name of the Republic of Macedonia and of course it is not ILLEGAL to use it. After all, Greece is a member of UN with the name of GREECE while its CONSTITUTIONAL name is HELLAS!!!!! Nobody can prohibit to Greeks or foreigners to use the constitutional name “Hellas” and tell them that they should use the name Greece everywhere and always, because this is the name by which the country entered UN!!!!

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 18, 2011 at 7:24 pm
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      Stephen E. Palmer, Robert R. King:

      The treatment of “Macedonian” history has the same primary goal as the creation of the “Macedonian” language: to de-Bulgarize the “Macedonians” and create a separate national consciousness.

      (“Yugoslav Communism and the Macedonian Question”, 1971)

      Reply
    • Avatar
      January 18, 2011 at 7:27 pm
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      Gyordan Veselinov, diplomat of the FYROM:

      “We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian. There is some confusion about the identity of the people of my country.”

      (Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 11, 2011 at 8:26 pm
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    FYROM Formerly Know as Southern Serbia then VARDARSKA BANOVINA (till 1944) The area occupied by FYROM was know in ancient times as PAEONIANS. CAPITAL: Skopje – It was a Roman colony founded in (81-96 A.D.) know as Scupi
    LANGUAGE: Slavic which is related to Bulgarian. ETHNIC: 60%Slav, 33%Albanian. HEROES: Josip Broz Tito the Creator(Croatian), Gotse Delchev(Bulgarian). St Cyril and Methodius(Greeks). INDEPENDENT: Recognised on 8th April 1993 HISTORY Copied from the Greeks and Bulgarians.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 14, 2011 at 12:57 am
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    Can you actually tell me why with the spread of the empire of Alexander the Great, we see the beginning of the HELLENISTIC period in the world of art, architecture and history, and GREEK language was spread from the Balkans to Egypt and India, and not “Macedonian”..?? Why we do not have any evidence of a separate “Macedonian” language and the Greek language became the lingua franca of all the HELLENISTIC states? Honestly people the history shouts out loud and you want to live in la la land…!!

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 15, 2011 at 7:36 am
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      First of all HELLENISTIC is not HELLENIC! Hellenistic is a made-up world to describe the civilization in the period of time AFTER Alexander the Great and during the Roman Empire, to DISTINGUISH it from the Hellenic civilization which was VERY DIFFERENT!
      And it is not the Greek language which became the lingua franca but the KOINE! The koine has lots of Greek words in it but also many other words of several other languages and was spoken by many people of different ethnic background and not just by Greeks (Macedonians spoke it , too). As about an ancient Macedonian language there are many testimonies from several historic sources that confirm its existence.
      Study real history and not just the old Greek historical political propaganda!

      Reply
      • Avatar
        May 6, 2011 at 6:59 am
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        Even the word KOINE is Greek.
        Poor misguided Slav.
        The history books I study are not Greek but English.
        Would you have us read the history books of the old Yugoslavia or the ones that the Soviet Union gave you.
        Like those now non-existent states crumbled as a result of their lies so will yours.

        Reply
  • Avatar
    January 14, 2011 at 1:32 pm
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    Eugene N. Borza, American historian, expert on Macedon:

    “Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and ‘Macedonians’, cannot establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émigrés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity. The twentieth-century development of a ‘Macedonian’ ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the ‘Macedonians’, who have had no history, need one. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called ‘Macedonia’ for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called ‘Macedonian’ ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation ‘Macedonia’ and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival…”

    (“Macedonia Redux”, in “The Eye Expanded: life and the arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity”, ed. Frances B Tichener & Richard F. Moorton, University of California Press, 1999)

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 14, 2011 at 1:37 pm
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    T.J. Winnifrith, British scholar:

    “Macedonia (FYROM) was also an attempt at a multicultural society. Here the fragments are just about holding together, although the cement that binds them is an unreliable mixture of propaganda and myth. The ‘Macedonian’ language has been created, some rather misty history involving Tsar Samuel, probably a Bulgarian, and Alexander the Great, almost certainly a Greek, has been invented, and the name Macedonia has been adopted. Do we destroy these myths or live with them? Apparently these ‘radical Slavic factions’ decided to live with their myths and lies for the constant amusement of the rest of the world!”

    (“Shattered Eagles, Balkan Fragments”, Duckworth, 1995)

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 15, 2011 at 8:09 pm
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      The only people in Europe with no history are the modern Greeks who where invented by the European philhellenes and made of the diverse population of the Morea region which was re-named as Peloponnese, like in antiquity. Macedonia, from the other end, never changed its name and there is no need to rename it now (though modern Greeks tried to re-name their part of Macedonia in province of Northern Greece, but since 1988 they changed their mind and called it again Macedonia!!!). There is nothing such as a greek nation: the only nation that exists now in Greece is the Greek Orthodox Patriarch Christians who call themselves after the ancient Greeks but all of them have a different and more modern ethnic background (Slavs, Albanians, Gypsies, Turks, etc). And of course, all their modern “greek“ history is fake..They still argue among themselves if they are Moraites, Romii (Romans), Greki or Hellines and the last 20 years Macedonians, too, no matter where are from!!!!!!

      Reply
      • Avatar
        January 18, 2011 at 7:15 pm
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        Alexander the Great, king of Macedon, 356 BCE – 323 BCE:

        “Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Greece and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you…”

        (Alexander’s letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea, as quoted in “Anabasis Alexandri” by Roman historian Arrian, Book II, 14, 4)

        Try to read some book not published in FYROM, it will only do you good.

        Reply
  • Avatar
    January 16, 2011 at 3:55 am
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    I am a Macedonian who is very proud of my Greek/Hellanistic ancestry. I am so disgusted with you Vardar Slavs for trying to steal my heritage by lying to yourselves and the world by calling yourselves Macedonians. You have been lying to yourselves for so long that you actually believe that you are Macedonians. Do yourselves and the world a favour and admit that you are truly Bulgarians who speak a Bulgarian dialect. This will also help heal the dire tensions with the Albanians who you discrimanate against in your country. Fess up! Why do you think the EU, UN, and USA want you to change your name?…Because they see past the lies your kind is telling. Greece is doing eveything it can to protect the heritageof the many millions of its Macedonians. No one is asking you to change anything that you never really had in the first place. Greeks know this. Bulgarians, Serbians, Albanians, the EU, UN, and USA knows this. You are marginalizing the real Macedonians who originate from Greece by trying to sell yourselves as Macedonians. Shame on you Vardar Slavs! Tell the truth for a change.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 17, 2011 at 1:04 am
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    enatGR you got to be joking!! The Hellenistic period in art and culture was full Greek! The Ptolemies spoke greek, the KOINE is a Greek dialect! Ask any historian in the world and he/she will confirm you that. Also visit the ancient Macedonian cities of Pella, Vergina, Philippoi and their ruins, the Archaeological Museum in Thessaloniki and Vergina, and if you see any other culture than the Greek, then I might give you the argument. All the findings that are being unearthed show one civilization! A Greek one!
    Uneducated Europeans and Americans who visit Greece just to get booze and shunshine, if they actually bothered to learn about the heritage that this part of the world has, this issue would not have dragged so long. You fall for FYROMian propaganda that has been injected in their poor minds by Tito! They have been brainwashed for decades to believe that they got anything to do with ancient Macedonians. They are one of the newest ethnic groups in Europe, and because they have no history of their own they try to steal that of Greece! Better start making your own!

    As for the arguments that modern Greeks have nothing to do with the ancient, again, visit the country and explore the heritage. Just because we do not believe in the 12 Gods anymore it does not mean that ancient Greeks simply vanished! No one claims that we are pure descendants of the ancient ancestors, but there is no proof that we are all Turks and Gypsies. That is a racist comment as expected by a Fyromian!

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 18, 2011 at 7:17 pm
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    Dennis P. Hupchick, American professor of history:

    “The Macedonian nationalists quite simply stole all of Bulgarian historical argument concerning Macedonia, substituting Macedonian for Bulgarian ethnic tags in the story.”

    (“Conflict and Chaos in Eastern Europe”, Palgrave Macmillan, 1995)

    “The obviously plagiarized historical argument of the Macedonian nationalists for a separate Macedonian ethnicity could be supported only by linguistic reality, and that worked against them until the 1940s. Until a modern Macedonian literary language was mandated by the socialist-led partisan movement from Macedonia in 1944, most outside observers and linguists agreed with the Bulgarians in considering the vernacular spoken by the Macedonian Slavs as a western dialect of Bulgarian.”

    (“Conflict and Chaos in Eastern Europe”, Palgrave Macmillan, 1995)

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 18, 2011 at 7:20 pm
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    Krste Misirkov, Slav-Macedonian philologist and publicist, considered a national hero in FYROM:

    “Some will ask why I speak of breaking away from the Bulgarians when in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians and when it is generally accepted that unification creates strength, and not separation.”

    “And, anyway, what sort of new Macedonian nation can this be when we and our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians?”

    “We are more Bulgarian than those in Bulgaria.”

    “We speak a Bulgarian language.

    (“On the Macedonian Matters”, Sofia 1903)

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 18, 2011 at 7:21 pm
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    Thomas Niles, American diplomat:

    For “Macedonia” to be recognized as an independent state, it would be necessary to change its name […] It is historically proven that the Yugoslavian Democracy of Macedonia was created by Stalin, Tito and Dimitrov, aiming at the stealthy removal of a large part of Northern Greece. This Democracy was used during the period 1944-1949 in order to destabilise Greece.

    (Statement on the 23rd June 1992 to the SubCommittee of US Congress, Eleutherotypia newspaper, 24 June 1992)

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 18, 2011 at 7:22 pm
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    Michael David Rann, Australian politician:

    “For many years, since the decade of the ’90s, we have been making efforts so that the name Republic of Macedonia is not recognized, because no nation should steal the history and symbols of another nation […] For all of us who love History, and know History, Macedonia is as Greek as the Acropolis.”

    (Eleftherotypia newspaper, May 05, 2007)

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm
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    To all:
    Call me as you like, you are good in that.

    Fact 1
    History is written by the winner
    Fact 2
    The Governments are controlled by other global authorities
    Fact 3
    Aegean Macedonians now lives in Macedonia(fyro Macedonia) and all over the world.
    Ask them how they were exiled from Aegean Macedonia.
    Fact 4
    Most of you never met real Macedonian
    Fact 5
    You are wasting energy debating, someone else is deciding.
    Fact 6
    I ll be and I ll stay Macedonian because I was born like that.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 19, 2011 at 8:53 pm
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    I notice too many Greeks here calling themselves “Macedonian” to confuse the issue. You are either Greek or Macedonian. You either speak Greek or speak Macedonian. They are not the same aside from the fact that Greece won half of southern Macedonia in the Treaty of Bucharest 98 years ago which doubled its size. They want the antiquity and glory of Macedonia attached to their names. I can’t say I blame them. Macedonia is beautiful, but how do they sleep at night? They lied about their economy, they don’t pay taxes, everything in the world was invented by a Greek according to them. When will the hypocrisy stop? The US is on their side because the Democrats are in office and are supported by the Greeks…and really, the US needs their naval base on Crete. The world is waking up as 2 more countries recognized Macedonia by its constitutional name this week. History is on Macedonia’s side.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 19, 2011 at 11:14 pm
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    To all the Greek posters: Take a more neutral view of the issue at hand and you will understand the issue better. Greece is a country created in 1832 out of an autochthonous population mixture -of Slavs, Albanians (Arvanites), Wallachians(Vlachs), Franks, Romans, turks and who kbows what else- in the vision of the Philhelenes of 19th century Europe. A vision that has resulted in todays Greeks claiming direct decent from Hercules, Achilles and Pericles. So in light of that I am not alarmed by the claims of the Macedonians. That is par for the course in that region. Even more recently in the 1920’s nearly a million Christians from Turkey (including the Karamanlis) were settled in the Greek province of Macedonia and the people are now claiming to be Macedonian decedants of Alexander the Great.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 20, 2011 at 3:57 am
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    Macedonia’s name and identity are her own business. Greeks were handed a large portion of historical Macedonia by the World Powers in 1913 for the first time in world history, but that doesn’t mean they own the history of that land.

    The Republic of Macedonia is not North Macedonia because the nation is called Macedonians, and the Macedonian people come from everywhere in historical Macedonian territory, including southern Macedonian towns such as Solun, Kostur, Lerin and Voden.

    The Republic of Macedonia is not Slavo anything, because language does not equal national identity. We are communicating in English, but that does not make us Englishmen.

    The Republic of Macedonia is the free, independent homeland of the Macedonian nation, and its name will never change, you can bet on it.

    Keep up the good work, Bill

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 20, 2011 at 5:19 pm
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    The Greek posters love to use western philhellene quotes to prove they are right. Yet they can’t even look to their own family history for any comfort at all.

    It’s a well known fact that Lord Byron was very surprised when he came to Athens and discovered that there where no ‘Adonis’ Greeks anywhere. Instead all he found were Albanian speaking peasants, the Arvaniti who had no idea what an Acropolis was. Even Hammond, the ultimate philhellene has clearly stated that the Peloponnese is vastly Albanian.

    Also, what about the Latin speaking Vlach’s who dominated in Thessaly and who could be found all over ‘Greece’ and Macedonia? What happened to them? In Macedonia they are a recognized minority with full rights.

    Actually a modern Greek is no different than a modern American. Yet Americans don’t claim a linear descendance from the Mia! You are only Greek in nationality. Your ethnic identity however has been willingly exterminated for an adopted one and now you want to do the same to the passive Macedonians ever since acquiring their land in 1913. Macedonians have been through unspeakable and horrible tragedy yet they have survived. They will take back their heritage and their homes in due time.

    The western world’s darling Greek nation was created and supported in it’s quest to exterminate Macedonians simply because it was unacceptable to have ‘Slavs’ who would turn to the hated Russians for their sphere of influence threatening western interests in the Mediterranean. There needed to be a buffer and the Avano-Vlach’s were the willing guinea pigs of the west.

    The slavic migration theory is a dead theory created at a time when east struggled against west and the world was thought to be 5000 years old. Would anyone care to quote Florin Curta? Just remember our neighbors to the south: The bigger the lie, the bigger the fool one will be when the truth is finally revealed.

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 20, 2011 at 9:02 pm
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      Well you don’t like scholarly quotes from non Greeks, just because you don’t agree with them. Maybe you like quotes from officials of the FYROM instead?

      Kiro Gligorov, first president of the FYROM:

      We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians.

      (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35)

      We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That’s who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia… Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century AD.

      (Toronto Star, March 15, 1992)

      Ljubica Acevska, diplomat of the FYROM:

      We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great… Greece is Macedonia’s second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nemitz […] We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language.

      (On 22 January 1999, in a speech on the present situation in the Balkans)

      Gyordan Veselinov, diplomat of the FYROM:

      We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian. There is some confusion about the identity of the people of my country.

      (Ottawa Citizen, 24 February 1999)

      Slobodan Casule, politician of the FYROM:

      We belong to the same Slav people.

      (To the Foreign Minister of Bulgaria, Solomon Pasi, Utrinski Vesnik newspaper, December 29, 2001)

      Denko Maleski, politician of the FYROM:

      The lack of capability by Macedonists in condition of democracy, also contributes to the vision of their opponents. The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the Macedonian historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the Macedonian identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made. In a case which that was not possible, the persons from history were proclaimed for Bulgarian agents who crossed into some imaginary pure Macedonian space.
      But when we had to encourage the moderate Greek political variant and move into a direction of reconciliation among peoples, our nationalism was modelled according to the Greek one. The direct descendants of Alexander the Great raised the fallen flag on which the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia was written and led the people in the final confrontation with the Hellenes (Greeks), the direct descendants of Greek gods. This warlike attitude of the “winners” which was a consequence of the fear of politician from heavy and unpopular compromises had its price. In those years, we lost our capability for strategic dialog. With Greeks? No, with ourselves. Since then, namely, we reach towards some fictional ethnic purity which we seek in the depths of the history and we are angry at those which dare to call us Slavs and our language and culture Slavic!? We are angry when they name us what we -if we have to define ourselves in such categories- are, showing that we are people full with complexes which are ashamed for ourselves. We lost our capability for reasonable judgment, someone shall say, because the past of the Balkans teaches us that to be wise among fools is foolish. Maybe. Maybe the British historians are right when they say that in history one can find confirmation for every modern thesis, so, we could say, also for the one that we are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians…

      (Utrinski Vesnik newspaper, October 16, 2006)

      The idea that Alexander the Great belong to us, was at the mind of some outsider political groups only! These groups were insignificant the first years of our independence but the big problem is that the old Balkan Nations have been learned to legitimate themselves through their history. In Balkans, if you want to be recognised as a Nation, you need to have history of 3000 years old. So since you made us to invent a history, we invent it! […] You forced us to the arms of the extreme nationalists who today claim that we are direct descendents of Alexander the Great!

      (In an interview for Greek TV channel Mega, November 2006)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 20, 2011 at 7:19 pm
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    To all the fyromian readers..My mother is Greek Macedonian…Her family is of greek stock and indigenous in the village of Epanomi, just outside of Thessaloniki, Greek Macedonia’s capital. Her family came from nowhere else..You are not the only “macedonians” in this world..when are you gonna give up this propaganda..? you are not going to enter either EU or NATO if you continue like this, simply because we can not have “allies” that want to steal our cultural heritage..
    there has been always been people of greek stock in Macedonia, in Gevgeli, in Plondiv (Philippoupolis) all the way down to Chalkidiki. The argument that all modern Greeks are descendants of Turks, Slavs and Albanians is racist in based in no valid arguments. That is why EU is not allowing you in, not because of Greece..start clearing the mess in your own country, give the human rights in your own minorities and stop demanding anything from other nations like Greece or Bulgaria..The real reason you are not entering EU is because you are not worth it, not because of Greece’s veto.
    how about the Greek, Albanian (30% of the population), Gypsy, Turkish, Bulgarian and Serb minorities in FYROM? Especially the suppressed Greek minority that had to change their surnames into slavic? if you want to go ahead with accusations, bring in on, you have a lot, A LOT of skeletons in your wardrobe too…

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  • Avatar
    January 20, 2011 at 9:06 pm
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    Three of my posts are deleted. What kind of a joke is this??

    Reply
    • Avatar
      January 20, 2011 at 9:12 pm
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      Your comments are more than welcome, spamming isn’t — which is repeated cut and pasting of comments.

      Reply
      • Avatar
        January 20, 2011 at 9:24 pm
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        Thanks for the reply. It’s just that I think scholarly quotes on the issue are more reliable than my point of you, that’s all.

        Reply
        • Avatar
          January 21, 2011 at 12:03 pm
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          That may be true, but could try to place the quotes in one comment, rather than in multiple posts, which tags it by our editors as possible spam. Thnx

          Reply
    • Avatar
      January 23, 2011 at 2:54 am
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      I looked at the suggested website and the list of 370 “classical scholars”. It is interesting to see that the majority of those names look Greek to me. It would be also interesting to know how many of these “scholars are married to Greeks”. If I am not mistaken Stephen G. Miller is one signer that is married to a Greek.

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 22, 2011 at 4:54 pm
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    Modern Greeks should be very careful when judging others on history and ethnicity. Here is a sample of their own ethnicity.

    ***********************

    “The Usable Past” – 2003

    By K.S Brown & Dr. Yannis Hamilakis

    Page 140:

    “..As a result of a number of historical factors, much of the rural population in central Greece was Albanian-speaking by the time of the creation of modern Greek state in the 1830s”

    ——————-

    “Politics in Modern Greece”,
    By Professor Keith R. Legg

    Page 86.

    “…At the time of independence, the range of local dialects was significant; substantial portions of the population spoke Albanian.”

    ——-

    “Insight Guides Athens Greece Series”
    By Martha Ellen Zenfell

    Page 42

    “…True Athenians were a relatively small minority even in the Age of Pericles. In a later period, the city was suffering from severe depopulation and was re-stocked with Albanians. At the time of Greek independence in 1834, Athens was a miserable village with a population of only 6,000″

    ———-

    Lucy M. J. Garnett
    “Greece of the Hellenes” – 1914

    Page 32:

    “..It is because Athens, twenty five years ago, was only an Albanian village. The Albanians formed and still form, almost the whole of the population of Attica; and within three leagues of the capital, villages are to be found where Greek is hardly understood.”

    ——-

    “EURYDICE STREET – A Place In Athens”

    By Dr Sofka Zinovieff, PhD
    Published: 2004

    Page 38:

    “…This preoccupation with Greekness only really began after the War of Independence (1830), when defining what it meant to be Greek became a vital element in creating a new state – Their first capital was the smart little Peloponnesian port Nafplio. It was thought to be far more suitable than the goat-infested ruins and the insignificant, predominantly Turkish-Albanian settlement which existed in 1900-century Athens”

    —————

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  • Avatar
    January 23, 2011 at 11:17 pm
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    I am sorry Tomas, this is nonsense!! You obviously do not know enough history and you just take from it what it suits you…Have you ever heard about the exchange of populations that took place after the Balkan Wars and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire..?? Almost all Bulgarians, Slavs, Turks and Albanians left Greece, and vice versa, many Greeks were expelled from Turkey, Bulgaria what is today FYROM..It was a tragic and horrible situation that destroyed the region, but it created HOMOGENOUS nations,(by religion, culture and heritage) simply because that was the purpose of such disastrous policy agreed by all the then governments of those new states..

    Besides, what European nation can claim “purity”? Mention one. We never said that we are 100% pure descendants of the ancient Greeks, but is a British man of today of some other ancestry, say Indian, African or other European, can not call himself a British man because part of his DNA is other than white anglosaxon British? Do you know how you sound like when you talk about DNA “purity”..?? Yes, that’s it! A Nazi!

    The issue is not about the “purity” of a nation, rather the cultural heritage and history. No matter if the Greeks of today are mixed or not, the heritage of ancient Greece and Macedonia goes to them by inheritance! No matter if the Greek citizen that claims that heritage is “pure” Greek, of white skin or darker one, christian, pagan or muslim! Do you understand that?

    The name dispute is not about the name, we in Greece call the fyromians “slavomacedonians”, that means macedonians of slavic decent! Do you get it now? Because simply that is what they are, but they are trying to tell us that they are the decendants of the ancient Macedonians, and this is rubbish! They speak a south slavic dialect and as we know the slavs came down to the region 1000 years later than Alexander the Great! Their alphabet is the Cyrillic one, and that was created by two Thessalonican priests more than a millenium after the rise of ancient Macedonia! how this is possible?

    We do not object to the name so much rather them using and falsifying our history and heritage! If they dropped all these nonsense this issue would be resolved by now. But they do not. And they are making fool of themselves by claiming ancient Macedonian heritage!
    Like all decendants of ancient Greeks, whether they are the Grikos of south Italy, the Cypriot Greeks, the Macedonian Greeks, the Epirotans, the Pontic Greeks, the Thracians, the Thessalians, the Greeks of Alexandria, the Peloponesians, the Cretans, the Islanders of the Aegean, the islanders of the Ionian sea, the Greeks of Asia Minor and the Ionians. We all have the same heritage but also different individual ones, different dialects, customs, music, but we are all united by a pan-Hellenic one. Those who came later in the region like the Vallachs and the Arvanites, they too call themselves Greeks by choice. Perhaps for the same reasons that a Frenchman of Algerian decent calls himself a Frenchman. Can you tell him that he is not? My cousin and one of my aunts are married to two Vallach men, believe me if you tell them that they are not true Greeks, they won’t take it nicely.

    And before anyone points the finger to Greece, lets see how “pure” other nations of Europe are! Turkey? You got to be joking!Albania? FYROM? Bulgaria? France? Spain? Italy? Britain? Perhaps the least “mixed” nations are the ones of Scandinavia due to geographical isolation. Now if you like you may continue to base your arguments on “purity” but I will have every right to call you a Nazi, because that is what you are!!

    The naming dispute is not just about the name! It involves all those issues that I have mentioned, but also remnants of the Greek civil war, when the Greek communists and their slavomacedonian collaborates were expelled from Greece with the blessings of the Western Powers, simply because they did not want a strong communist influence in Greece, a country that fell under the “West’s” sphere of influence. Those people demand to re enter Greece and ask for their properties back. They are denied, as they were considered traitors of the nation and that is what they are exactly! How can you allow them to come back with such anti-Hellenic attitude and why? Their ancestors were kicked out from Greece and many went to today’s FYROM and other eastern European states. Most of them who left for the ex USSR states were allowed to come back. Fyromians though they are still forbidden! And a good thing too!

    for more on this issue please visit my blog and search for the post “The issue with FYROM” (www.eblanademocraticmove.blogspot.com)

    regards,

    a Greek Macedonian

    Reply
  • Avatar
    January 25, 2011 at 12:24 pm
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    The responses of Greeks to this article is exactly why Macedonia should be able to be just Macedonia, what it’s been for thousands of years. Their responses mirror the ludicrous xenophobic position of the Greek goverment, which is anti-Macedonian to its core.
    While those that go to “Greek school” don’t seem to understand, the rest of the world accepts a separate Macedonian nation, country, language and culture. Perhaps one day “Greek school” will advance into modern society and accept these realities.

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    • Avatar
      January 28, 2011 at 11:42 am
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      Macedonia (the northern and most populous Greek region) is indeed always been Macedonia for thousands of years. The problem is with the FYROM, the modern Slavic-Albanian country at the north of Macedonia that was Paeonia in antiquity, an enemy of ancient Macedonia and Macedonians, a Greek land and people. Now FYROM is inhabited mainly by Slavs (self-identify as Bulgarians only until the beginning of the 20th century) and Albanians, using a Bulgarian language with Serbian orthography. Citizens of the FYROM are now brainwashed and they think that they can call themselves Macedonia and their language Macedonian even if they have nothing in common with the Greeks what so ever! The problem is not with Greece:…

      “The adoption of a compound name with a geographic content and with respect for the distinction between ancient Macedonia and the state of FYROM, would serve both the truth and the present-day needs of the geographic region and of the larger area surrounding it. The Greek interest does indicate the concern of public opinion in the face of intransigent provocations on the part of Skopje that tend -as is evident even in the school textbooks- not only to appropriate but even to monopolise the history, the cultural achievements, the symbols -including the ancient ones-, the monuments, and the personalities that were active in the Macedonian area in the past. It is self-evident that the expression of good will on the part of any Greek government is not sufficient to overcome the fact or the effects of nationalist excesses similar to those that were artfully cultivated during the post-war period.” (Academy of Athens)

      …but with FYROM and their ultra nationalistic government that publishes school books with territorial claims against Greeks. Deal with it.

      Edward O’Hara, British politician:

      “Attention may have been deflected from the danger in that area by the nature of the dispute between Macedonia (FYROM) and Greece, which is seen as being ostensibly over a name, although it amounts to more than that. A name is important as it gives an area an identity. I shall not indulge in a lecture on the ancient identity of the Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the Great, but the Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they launched in the early days of the dispute. Understandably, detached outsiders say, “But that is ancient history, isn’t it?” Nor shall I engage in a lecture on the falsification of the history of Slavo-Macedonia since 1944, although that, too, has much hard factual content. I simply remind the House that Tito’s renaming of Vardar Banovina as the Republic of Macedonia in 1944 was a political statement. More than that, it was a territorial claim. It laid claim to territory in Greece and in Bulgaria. Notably, the objective was the warm water port of Salonika on the Aegean. The Greeks fought a bloody civil war on that issue between 1945 and 1949, when we were celebrating the peace that was commemorated as recently as yesterday. Clause 49 of the constitution of the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia enshrines that claim and subsequent propaganda, especially by a political faction, the VMRO, has kept the claim alive ever since.” (House of Commons Hansard Debates for 9 May 1995, Column 601)

      “President Kiro Gligorov may argue that he cannot control the publications of political parties, but I believe that the adoption of the sunburst emblem of Vergina, recently discovered in Greek Macedonia on the coffin of Philip II of Macedon, the father of Alexander the Great, is a wilful act of authorisation of that claim. If hon. Members wish to empathise with the strength of feeling about that emblem, it is as though the thistle were stolen from the Scots and adopted by another country. It is an emblem, but it stirs up passions. President Gligorov has mounted an impressive propaganda campaign about that, which has deflected attention from some of the more substantial issues in that earlier dispute and, in great measure, has succeeded in casting the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in the guise of the little victim of the big bully, Greece…

      Greece has no territorial dispute with the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. It is almost unique in the Balkans in having no such territorial claims on any of its neighbours. Greece has demonstrated its desire to have policies of support and co-operation with its neighbours in that part of the world by its breakthrough in its relationship with Albania, on which both Governments deserve congratulations because thereby another potential flashpoint to the south of the Balkans was damped down. Greece is physically located in the Balkans. It wants nothing more than to achieve a similar relationship with the former Yugoslav republic, but it needs support to do so.

      It is no wonder that, in matters of politics in the Balkans, Greece feels misunderstood. It cannot understand why, after it stood alone with the United Kingdom against the forces of fascism between 28 October 1940–Ohi day, as it is still called–and 27 April 1941, when Athens finally fell, its former allies now appear to be taking the part of forces against which it stood, especially when, after the second world war, it endured those further four years of civil war to hold the line against the communist advance to the Aegean. That was done for the United States and for the United Kingdom especially–the world powers of the time–and those Governments objected, in 1944, to Tito’s change of the name of Vardar Banovina.”
      (House of Commons Hansard Debates for 9 May 1995, Column 602)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    January 25, 2011 at 9:12 pm
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    To the previous poster.

    History is very clear when you read what professors, Ph.D, academics, authors, statesmen are saying about the ethnic composite of the modern day “Greek”.

    In my book, the right to self-determination and international law of human rights, speaks louder than what you and your fellow modern-day Greeks thinks of the citizens of Rep. of Macedonia.

    Its been proven that the Greek state has been a multiple offender of human rights, in-particular towards minorities, Turks and Macedonians. In 2009, UN minority report by Gay McDougal stated clearly of the minority rights abuses – The European Court of Human Rights has even convicted (2004) the Greek state for minority rights. So it’s not surprising that modern Greeks, like yourself, would even deny the human rights of other people.

    The right to cultural heritage and history is the right to self-determination. You are only allowed to call yourself “Greek” because of the human right to self-determination. And that goes with any other people as well. You’re no exception.

    Besides, what makes you think you deserve the cultural heritage and history of ancient Greece?

    The land of Greece has been re-stocked with people many times over since 500 AD. The Slavic invasion from 600, or, 700 AD reached all the way down to Peloponnese, which later followed by the Vlach and Albanian invasions from 1000 AD towards 1800-century. In the meantime, the Ottoman invasion (1300-century) brought and re-stocked the land of Greece with Turks.

    Your forefathers were most likely ethnic Albanians, Vlachs, Slavs, Turks etc. And yet you talk about “cultural heritage and history” as if you had ethnic belongning to the real Greeks in the ancient times.

    I’d say that you were GIVEN this heritage and history from the western powers, ironically from Germany.

    To sum it up, here is what some known authors, statesmen and professors write:

    —–

    “The Body Impolitic”
    By Michael Herzfeld, Professor of Harvard

    Page 9:

    “..Here is the ultimate Greek tragedy: that of a country forced to treat everything familiar at the time of the nation-state’s foundation as ‘foreign’ while importing a culture largely invented – or at least – redesigned by German classicists of the late eighteenth early nineteenth centuries. For many decades, and almost without interruption, Greeks were forced to put aside music, art and language that were deemed too tainted by the ‘oriental’ influences of Ottoman, Arab, Slavic and Albanian culture; to forget the partially Albanian roots of Athens”

    ——

    “GREECE OLD AND NEW”
    Published: 1983
    ISBN-13: 9780312347161

    William St. Clair
    Byron and Greece – Page 161:

    “..Most Greeks (Christian Orthodox) did not share Byron’s views and would not have understood his allusions. They did not think of themselves as Greeks at all – and certainly not as Hellenes. They had little sense of nationality in the Western European sense of a nation state like England or France with distinct geographical boundaries, a single language, and uniform culture. They thought of themselves rather as the Orthodox Christian inhabitants of a large multi-racial empire – They were not, for the most part, in the least interested in their ancient ancestors, and they knew very little about them.”

    ——

    “Modern Greece A Short History”
    Author: C.M. Woodhouse

    Page 163

    “…Greece included considerably fewer than half of those who regarded themselves as Greeks by virtue of their language,their religion, and (less plausibly) their race – It is a striking fact that the leading defenders of Greek liberty at this time were largely Non-Greek. Koundouriotis was decended from the Albanian invadors of Greece in the 14th century…One of the few leaders who maintained resistance far to the north of the Gulf of Corinth was the Souliote, Marko Botsaris, whos followers were largely Albanian”

    (Authors C.M. Woodhouse was a Conservative politician and MP for Oxford from 1959 to 1966 and again from 1970 to 1974. Woodhouse was an expert on Greek affairs. He served most of his time in the War in Greece where his love for this country grew strong. After the conclusion of World War II, Woodhouse served as Second Secretary at the British Embassy in Athens, Greece until 1946, whereupon he returned to Britain. He is the author of 6 books on Greece.)

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    • Avatar
      January 27, 2011 at 7:31 pm
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      You really are a good follower of the famous FYROMian propagandist Risto Stefov, who stated once: “Dear Macedonians, one way to defend ourselves from the Greek onslaught and gain back our identity and dignity is to fight back to the level to which the Greeks have reduced us; that is to attack their identity as they have attacked ours. We need prove nothing to them except to expose them as the artificial identity they truly are and to uncover their design to wipe us out in order to usurp our Macedonian heritage.”

      Truth is that ethnic Macedonians are Slavs using (even monopolizing!) a Greek name (“Macedonia”) to identify themselves, their land and their language, like it or not…

      ” ‘Macedonia’ (FYROM) was also an attempt at a multicultural society. Here the fragments are just about holding together, although the cement that binds them is an unreliable mixture of propaganda and myth. The ‘Macedonian’ language has been created, some rather misty history involving Tsar Samuel, probably a Bulgarian, and Alexander the Great, almost certainly a Greek, has been invented, and the name Macedonia has been adopted. […] Do we destroy these myths or live with them? Apparently these ‘radical Slavic factions’ decided to live with their myths and lies for the constant amusement for the rest of the world!”

      (T.J. Winnifrith, British academic, “Shattered Eagles, Balkan Fragments”, Duckworth, 1995)

      “The legacy of the Greeks is under assault today thus deserves defence and celebration for the simple reason that much of what we are is the result of that brilliant examination of human life first begun by the Greeks; as Jacob Burckhardt says, ‘We see with the eyes of the Greeks and use their phrases when we speak.’

      We must listen to the Greeks not because they will give us answers, but because they first identified the questions and problems, and they knew too where the answers must come from: the minds of free human beings who have control over their own lives. And this, finally, is the greatest good we have received from the Greeks: the gift of freedom.”

      (Bruce Thornton, US classicist, “Defending the Greeks”, Private Papers, 2005)

      Reply
  • Avatar
    September 4, 2011 at 1:19 am
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    when greeks talks about the name they use the ancient period, i have been translating ancient greek text sooo ex. Demosthen didnt like macedonian, Philip II what ancient period people. every ,,smart person,, was killed or run away from that greece which never was a country. some tribes like pirates came from iran with few words and called them greeks or hellens hahha. greece has everythink not greeks. so make u’re economy cause u gonna fall down like Titanic!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
  • Avatar
    March 3, 2012 at 11:37 pm
    Permalink

    @Silvana

    You claim to have been translating ancient Greek text. I seriously doubt this based on the low quality of your post. You also seemed to have missed the irony of your claim. Why is the text you are alleged translating written in ancient Greek and not in the Bulgarian dialect the communists renamed “Macedonian”?

    Reply
  • Avatar
    May 1, 2012 at 8:19 am
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    It would be good if Macedonia is renamed the ‘Macedon Republic’ and the people ‘Macedonns’ and ‘Macedonnes’. The country will use the ‘Lion flag,’ instead of the Vergina Sun. Then Greece can shut up. If it doesn’t, the ‘Macedon Republic’ wouldn’t even care… Name stays the same, just adapting to context. Problem solved.

    Reply

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